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Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

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Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#51

Post by rantwasp »

azpa wrote: post #38
d4mi3n wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all for getting everyone vaccinated as well, but I’d be really concerned about the precedent this sets. The reasons governments are reluctant to do this is they it sets a precedent for them to dictate what a person can do with their bodies. Saying someone must have an injection, regardless of how well intentioned it is, requires you to be able to dictate what goes into their body. Pretty much the same set of powe…

Unclear how different this is from the draft.

i think the draft is way worse in that you are separated from your family and there is a real possibility you’re going to die.

also, remember that this is not the government. your employer can ask you to do anything (within limits) and invoke at-will employment when you don’t want to do it. I love capitalism!

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#52

Post by paxys »

One angle that isn't being discussed – having vaccinated employees greatly reduces healthcare costs for the company and its insurance provider. I'm sure they would love to enforce vaccinations, annual checkups, healthy diet, exercise, no smoking etc. among employees as a condition for providing insurance or employment if there wasn't a social pushback for doing so.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#53

Post by ErikVandeWater »

danans wrote: post #27
sumeno wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious most likely

Though very few religions oppose vaccines: https://slate.com/technology/2015/02/religious-exemption-for...

It's really shaky to say "religions" don't oppose vaccines because religious interpretation (and personal interactions with their god(s)) is up to the individual.

But it's all irrelevant in this case because Google is almost entirely an at-will employer. They can change the terms of the agreement at any time - take it or leave it.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#54

Post by d4mi3n »

azpa wrote: post #38
d4mi3n wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all for getting everyone vaccinated as well, but I’d be really concerned about the precedent this sets. The reasons governments are reluctant to do this is they it sets a precedent for them to dictate what a person can do with their bodies. Saying someone must have an injection, regardless of how well intentioned it is, requires you to be able to dictate what goes into their body. Pretty much the same set of powe…

Unclear how different this is from the draft.

You raise an excellent point. When you sign up for the US military you give up a lot of your rights. This is definitely bad from a perspective of individual rights, though I can see arguments for a draft being a matter of addressing an existential threat.

Do we as a country feel like COVID is an existential threat? I’m definitely concerned about how we handle future, potentially worse pandemics before we figure out where we draw these lines and what appropriate trade offs are for public health.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#55

Post by paxys »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #14
sumeno wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious most likely

Unfortunately, this loophole will negate the entire mandate.

Vaccination isn't an all or nothing game. Every single bit helps. Some people will always opt out one way or another, but that doesn't make the entire policy useless.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#56

Post by shrubble »

From the first point of the Nuremberg Code:

'The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment. The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs, or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity.'

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Code

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#57

Post by standardUser »

mbeattie wrote: post #11
FreakyT wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly -- people are still free to not get vaccinated, but they're not free to go to aggregate settings where they might infect everyone there, which seems like a reasonable compromise. It's the same approach as with antivax parents -- don't want your kids vaccinated? Then you'll need to homeschool them.

Does this apply to the flu, varicella, meningitis, etc as well?

The vaccination rate for vericella (Chickenpox) is over 90%, so our society has herd immunity and cases are rare. Same with measles, mumps, diphtheria and polio. I don't know the vaccination for meningitis, but cases are rare and mostly in children not old enough to be vaccinated.

If an officemate wanted to be a free rider on one of those they could, and it would be very unlikely any harm would come from it.

If we had a 90% vaccination rate for this coronavirus we would not be having this conversation (and several hundred Americans would not be dying daily from a preventable illness).

As for the flu, its not especially dangerous, not prone to exponential spread, pre-symptomatic transmission is rare and the vaccines are not especially effective. So the flu shot is in a different class than the others.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#58

Post by pokstad »

Makes no rational sense. The unvaccinated choose to be unvaccinated. You can walk into any Walgreens and get vaccinated for free. The vaccines have over 99% efficacy. Over 99% of new infections are unvaccinated people. Vast majority of vaccinated people getting infected with delta are having mild illness.

If I had to bet, these sorts of policies actually disincentivize people to get vaccinated. Let everyone suffer so you can keep living unvaccinated.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#59

Post by paxys »

rantwasp wrote: post #2

oh snap. I totally understand this measure and, for the record, agree with it, but I'm picturing the pushback that this will lead to.

Doubtful. Some people might make a little bit of noise, but how many are willing to give up a Google salary to fight for the anti-vax cause?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#60

Post by 6f8986c3 »

mbeattie wrote: post #19
DrBenCarson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope so

I’ve never had a job require me to prove those vaccines to come in.

It's one of those cases where it's required by law, but the law is never enforced.

I have applied for visa in multiple countries, attended public schools as well as university, and even had employment contracts specifying current vaccination.

I have never had to actually present any of that information. I'm not even sure how I could find it.

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