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EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

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Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#251

Post by himinlomax »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #14
BelenusMordred wrote: post #5

> Private jets will enjoy an exemption through classification of "business aviation" as the use of aircraft by firms for carriage of passengers or goods as an "aid to the conduct of their business", if generally considered not for public hire. > A further exemption is given for "pleasure" flights whereby an aircraft is used for "personal or recreational" purposes not associated with a business or professional use. Su…

That and it's also the most wasteful use of fuel, because you're lifting an entire jet and crew for more than likely a single rich jerk who feels too special to fly passenger jets like everyone else. On a carbon-per-person metric, private jets are literally the worst .

General aviation is essential to the aviation ecosystem, particularly for the training of pilots and technician. People rich enough to buy afford a jet wouldn't be phased by a jet fuel tax, but a tax affecting very small carriers and general aviation will reduce the available talent pool. Either directly by reducing a venue through which people learn to become pilots and technicians, limit their job opportunities in periods of downturn of the rest of the industry, but also indirectly by making the field even less accessible.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#252

Post by benhurmarcel »

makomk wrote: post #199
dang wrote: post #175

The key word here is probably "draft". Bill proposals usually don't amount to much, and for that reason it's generally good practice to wait for a state change (no pun intended). Proposed bills usually go nowhere - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... On HN, there's no harm in waiting - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

I'm pretty sure the significance of a proposed bill is rather different from the EU than in typical democratic countries like say the UK, US or Canada. In most democracies any elected politician can propose a bill, and so they often do purely as a form of showboating to the electorate even if there's no chance it'll get passed. Within the EU, only the small, powerful and very much non-elected European Commission can…

> very much non-elected European Commission

They are proposed by the elected governments of the member states, and approved by a majority vote from the directly-elected European parliament.

It is very misleading to suggest that the Commission is completely unelected, like the British House of Lords is for example (in the "typical democratic UK"). It's not comparable.

> some other group with the power to stop it

You mean like the directly-elected European parliament, that needs to vote on it?

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#253

Post by raxxorrax »

lsllc wrote: post #57
BelenusMordred wrote: post #5

> Private jets will enjoy an exemption through classification of "business aviation" as the use of aircraft by firms for carriage of passengers or goods as an "aid to the conduct of their business", if generally considered not for public hire. > A further exemption is given for "pleasure" flights whereby an aircraft is used for "personal or recreational" purposes not associated with a business or professional use. Su…

"When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money." https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/10/20/last-tree-cut/

Cash could be eaten at least. Try to eat a bitcoin...

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#254

Post by black6 »

jbay808 wrote: post #123
tasogare wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP is right. The real point of carbon-tax (and the heavy promotion of global warming) is not to address the underlying issue but to extract wealth from the 99.9% and redirect it to the riches. Any other occasions will be used as such: for example recently the covid was used to kill small businesses and fed the big corporations, which stock rised hugely.

How do you know this?

By knowing history and being observant.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#255

Post by bluGill »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #242
bluGill wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is either government, or C level executives in large companies. Nobody else can afford to fly private jets. Even if you fill your private jet with others it is still cheaper to fly first class commercial. I've looked into it, engineers can't afford it unless their company is paying for it.

I follow Formula One drivers on social media, and they regularly posts photos of themselves on private planes. Well technically these are charters, but at the end of the day it's just them and their friends/family on each of these flights.

Paid for by their sponsors.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#256

Post by bluGill »

emteycz wrote: post #250
WJW wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure that is not just overlapping in Europe though.

in the USA there is much more people out of the overlap. In Europe, most businessmen can't afford it.

Even in the US most can't afford it. Only the high executives.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#257

Post by rubyist5eva »

js8 wrote: post #218
rubyist5eva wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I don't own a vehicle. I use public transit, walk, ride a bike, carpool - do all of the things that the government "wants me to do" but I don't get a rebate or any kind of exemption. I pay the same amount of road tax as my father who drives a Ford F150 an hour to an from work everyday, and my step-mother that drives an SUV even though she has zero need for one. I probably actually pay _relatively_ more because…

I would hope it was clear from the example, but I mean road tax that is paid by actual users of the road, not all taxpayers.

Such a thing doesn’t exist in my country, unless you use a private road with a toll.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#258

Post by bellyfullofbac »

bluGill wrote: post #255
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I follow Formula One drivers on social media, and they regularly posts photos of themselves on private planes. Well technically these are charters, but at the end of the day it's just them and their friends/family on each of these flights.

Paid for by their sponsors.

Got a citation, or are you just being a know-it-all?

Sure, at the end of the day their paycheck is money that came from their sponsors, but I'm pretty sure they mostly pay for the flights themselves. Many drivers live in Monaco, so they've even shared a chartered private jet going to some races and back.

Or I've even seen a driver take his wife and kids to vacation from Switzerland to Finland, on a private plane, with no sponsors being tagged in the Instagram story (but well, let me guess, you're going to tell me I'm being advertised to in other ways).

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#259

Post by goodpoint »

InitialLastName wrote: post #197
goodpoint wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Private jets are completely irrelevant Every amount of pollution counts, otherwise we could also claim that a single individual makes 0 difference.

With 8 billion people, it's difficult to allocate responsibility in a way that doesn't round to zero. Worst kind of tragedy of the commons.

One person accounts for 0.0000000125% of humanity.

If we consider such number small enough to be rounded to zero we are implicitly allowing homicide.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#260

Post by bluGill »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #258
bluGill wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paid for by their sponsors.

Got a citation, or are you just being a know-it-all? Sure, at the end of the day their paycheck is money that came from their sponsors, but I'm pretty sure they mostly pay for the flights themselves. Many drivers live in Monaco, so they've even shared a chartered private jet going to some races and back. Or I've even seen a driver take his wife and kids to vacation from Switzerland to Finland, on a private plane, wit…

The know-it-all.

Though sports figures are more likely to take private planes in general. [When] They have the high income to support it, they also have a need to get between many different cities fairly quick, and not all those cities have good commercial connections.

Thus racers are rich enough to support private planes - via their sponsors. Most people don't have that kind of income.

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