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Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

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Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#241

Post by asdff »

kingsuper20 wrote: post #97

I do have to wonder if it wouldn't be simpler to just move state functions, as many as are practical, to the county level. Counties are perfectly capable of being 100% in charge of their own schools, roads, police. They largely are, but subject to a great deal of probably unnecessary state control.

Having things at the county level that are currently state functions will break a lot of cities, like Atlanta, which are divided into several counties and leads to issues when it comes to regional planning or transit. I think that we should instead remove the city government from having undue influence on the wider region. Beverly hills managed to stall the LA county purple line subway extension for nearly 25 years, and now the costs to do work planned several generations of planners ago are enormous.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#242

Post by ABeeSea »

BobbyJo wrote: post #229
ABeeSea wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republican Reagan signed EMTALA which makes it so hospitals can’t refuse service in emergencies due to ability to pay. It stopped people from dying in the street. They did not fund this new mandate and so we currently pay for this through higher insurance premiums and county/municipal emergency service budgets. Universal healthcare would be a more efficient way to pay for an already existing benefit. When uninsured c…

Reagan is not 'the right'. He's a member of the Republican party who served 50 years ago. And again, universal health care only saves money if you start with the basis that the government will force private companies to take on customers that can't pay for service, something that is very much not a right wing ideology. I'm not saying it's a bad idea or a good idea, I'm just saying there is no basis for universal heal…

> if you start with the basis that the government will force private companies to take on customers that can't pay for service,

EMTALA already does this and I don’t see a push on the right to repeal EMTALA. Universal healthcare is a more efficient model of what is already happening.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#243

Post by teclordphrack2 »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #114
kingsuper20 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. Given the metastasizing of the FIRE (finance, insurance, real estate) sections of the economy, and their typical concentration in urban areas,…

A different lens to view this through has to do with economic and population shifts over the last century. Specifically the huge increase in agricultural productivity. "In 1900, just under 40 percent of the total US population lived on farms, and 60 percent lived in rural areas. Today, the respective figures are only about 1 percent and 20 percent." [1] That's a large erosion of political and economic power in those…

The current definition of what is urban vs rural is very shaky. I don't think when theses numbers are brought up there is an understanding of what counted as rural then and what counts as rural now.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#244

Post by whoooooo123 »

rsj_hn wrote: post #234
teclordphrack2 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except a lot on the left is driven by data.

Banning plastic straws, asserting that men should compete against women in sports if they identify as women, and eliminating SAT scores doesn't seem like a science-driven approach, but more of a faith-based science-denialism.

Genuine question: what's wrong with banning plastic straws?

Edit: I know that paper straws are a pain to drink through, my question was more: why is banning plastic straws an example of "faith-based science denialism"?

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#245

Post by staplung »

GongOfFour wrote: post #88
mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

Here is the website for one of the groups pushing for this: https://www.greateridaho.org/ Taxes are just one part of this. They list these other issues of concern: > 1. American Values: Oregon will continue to violate more and more American values and American freedoms because normal rural Americans are outnumbered in Oregon. Not in Idaho. Addicts will be attracted to Oregon from all over the world by the 2020 drug d…

> 4. Safety: Idaho allows forests to be managed to prevent destruction of housing from huge wildfires.

I just spent a month in central Oregon and there were proscribed burns going on all over the place. It was the most forest management I've seen in any state.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#246

Post by BobbyJo »

jfrunyon wrote: post #218
BobbyJo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My personal believe is presently, for lack of data that I can digest, that the far right is probably focused around emotions Both sides have appeals to emotion and appeals to logic in their platform. For instance, what basis is there for universal healthcare other than 'we should help each other'? You can't make the argument that it would 'save the government money' to the right, because, in their opinion, the gover…

> Both sides have appeals to emotion and appeals to logic in their platform. For instance, what basis is there for universal healthcare other than 'we should help each other'? You can't make the argument that it would 'save the government money' to the right ... You're right, you don't say it would save the government money. You make the argument that it would save everyone money. No one has any incentive to care abo…

>No one has any incentive to care about the price of healthcare, currently

That's a problem that can be fixed without making the government the sole customer: Make people pay for their own healthcare.

>Not the suppliers, not the providers, not the insurers

That's simply not true. They all have profit motive.

>And the consumers simply have no choice.

That's only true in emergency medicine, which is the minority of care most people receive.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#247

Post by troutwine »

joshka wrote: post #238
troutwine wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What sort of logic supports that American values are those held by a minority of Americans. What possible values suggest they are the normal ones? There's a very present "last bastion" framing in most of the right-wing media I track. It'll depend on exactly what the foundational beliefs of the community are that drive this framing -- John Birch society derivative folks arrive here via a different path than white su…

Thanks - as a non-American living there, this is pretty helpful to further my understanding. I wonder whether there's any actual examples of the values being brought back from a point where they have disappeared.

> I wonder whether there's any actual examples of the values being brought back from a point where they have disappeared.

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Are you asking about examples of people that have been de-radicalized?

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#248

Post by BobbyJo »

ABeeSea wrote: post #242
BobbyJo wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reagan is not 'the right'. He's a member of the Republican party who served 50 years ago. And again, universal health care only saves money if you start with the basis that the government will force private companies to take on customers that can't pay for service, something that is very much not a right wing ideology. I'm not saying it's a bad idea or a good idea, I'm just saying there is no basis for universal heal…

> if you start with the basis that the government will force private companies to take on customers that can't pay for service, EMTALA already does this and I don’t see a push on the right to repeal EMTALA. Universal healthcare is a more efficient model of what is already happening.

I also don't see a push from republicans to repeal social security. That doesn't mean it isn't a socialist policy.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#249

Post by cratermoon »

DeRock wrote: post #232
cratermoon wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next time you're at a national park, national forest, BLM land, or some other federal facility of that sort, check out the brand and types of trucks they have.

I honestly don't know, can you tell me? One thing to consider is that Biden has been very public about transitioning US government fleets to all electric ( https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/25/biden-plans-to-replace-gover... ), so even if other brands are currently used, it doesn't matter, because they don't sell an electric pickup.

I don't know the exact breakdown, but the Ford F-150 is a very popular truck and the government buys a huge number of Fords, along with Dodge and Chevrolet. You can buy them at auction when the government is done with them. https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucitsrh/

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#250

Post by dawnerd »

orik wrote: post #228
iwasakabukiman wrote: post #182

This article title is grossly misleading. As far as I can tell from the article, no actual votes have happened. The group behind this is just pushing for counties to support them. These types of groups pop up all the time, make hay and then disappear.

There were votes, two more counties will hold a vote at a later date. https://results.oregonvotes.gov/SearchResults.aspx?ID=139 https://results.oregonvotes.gov/SearchResults.aspx?ID=124 https://results.oregonvotes.gov/SearchResults.aspx?ID=141 https://results.oregonvotes.gov/SearchResults.aspx?ID=248 https://results.oregonvotes.gov/SearchResults.aspx?ID=242

Still misleading, they voted to look into it. It's a HUGE waste of money since it wont go anywhere in congress.
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