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Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

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Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#221

Post by jdhn »

dumbfoundded wrote: post #9

For reference, this is about 100K people of 4.2M in Oregon (1). The rural counties of Southern Oregon and Northern California have been proposing the state of Jefferson for a while now (2). From my experience living there for a few years, it's the most libertarian place I've ever seen. It's like Texas without the Christianity. People there generally support gay marriage, abortion, and cannabis legalization but also l…

The counties that make up Jefferson could also be absorbed into Western Nevada, but that's not as sexy as becoming your own state.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#222

Post by cratermoon »

rhacker wrote: post #213
cratermoon wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decriminalize all drugs[0] during a time when overdoses are at an all time high[1] and increasing over 40% in just the last year. You're assuming overdose rates are negatively correlated with criminalization of drugs. Have you considered the possibility that it's exactly the opposite, then when drugs are decriminalized, people can have access to better information and health care? If you're a professional and you h…

I've never heard of a company accepting and paying for alcohol treatment? It's 100% fire rate in my opinion.

Most health plans will cover at least a portion of substance abuse treatment. Things like HIPAA are there to keep your employer out of your business. You might be surprised how many of your co-workers have been through some kind of substance abuse program.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#223

Post by cratermoon »

_qwfv wrote: post #217
cratermoon wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> violate more and more American values and American freedoms By this the folks in eastern Oregon are criticizing Democratic Gov. Brown for her approach to the pandemic: you know, normal things like closing restaurants and churches, requiring masks indoors, etc.

Ok, so say that. Or connect them to "American Values" concretely somehow. Because right now they are just saying their opponents are "un-American" which means whatever it needs to mean without actually saying anything of substance.

They put it that way on purpose, it's coded language, full of dog whistles. They don't say the quiet part out loud.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#224

Post by jessaustin »

krapp wrote: post #50
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if everyone agrees to prevent conquering-by-force, why wouldn't it work?

Humans don't work that way. We always create hierarchies of power and control, it's innate to our primate nature.

Many primates don't do that. Many humans haven't done that. Stop shilling for the patriarchy.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#225

Post by philistine »

ghaff wrote: post #119
UncleOxidant wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of this has to do with how we've been able to drive down agricultural costs by means of automation over the last century which has driven a move away from family farms to larger corporate farms. In 1900, just under 40 percent of the total US population lived on farms, and 60 percent lived in rural areas. Today, the respective figures are only about 1 percent and 20 percent.[1] Sure the coasts are creating more e…

You have to be careful with the 80/20 US Census split numbers between urban/rural. Between myself and a couple neighbors, we're on 100 acres next to even more conservation land. One neighbor has an apple orchard. Another a Christmas tree farm. The town I'm in is considered urban because we're near a major city and adjacent to another small city.

But you are urban. You are near a major city, and adjacent another small one like you said. Urban versus rural is not a measure of closeness to nature, it's a measure of closeness to other humans.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#226

Post by kolbe »

mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

Why would you spend so much time writing so much about people who you admitted to knowing nothing about? Go visit rural America. Talk to people. Getting upvotes on Hacker News for presumptuous rants is no way to actually learn what’s happening.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#228

Post by orik »

iwasakabukiman wrote: post #182

This article title is grossly misleading. As far as I can tell from the article, no actual votes have happened. The group behind this is just pushing for counties to support them. These types of groups pop up all the time, make hay and then disappear.

There were votes, two more counties will hold a vote at a later date.

https://results.oregonvotes.gov/SearchResults.aspx?ID=139

https://results.oregonvotes.gov/SearchResults.aspx?ID=124

https://results.oregonvotes.gov/SearchResults.aspx?ID=141

https://results.oregonvotes.gov/SearchResults.aspx?ID=248

https://results.oregonvotes.gov/SearchResults.aspx?ID=242

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#229

Post by BobbyJo »

ABeeSea wrote: post #207
BobbyJo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My personal believe is presently, for lack of data that I can digest, that the far right is probably focused around emotions Both sides have appeals to emotion and appeals to logic in their platform. For instance, what basis is there for universal healthcare other than 'we should help each other'? You can't make the argument that it would 'save the government money' to the right, because, in their opinion, the gover…

Republican Reagan signed EMTALA which makes it so hospitals can’t refuse service in emergencies due to ability to pay. It stopped people from dying in the street. They did not fund this new mandate and so we currently pay for this through higher insurance premiums and county/municipal emergency service budgets. Universal healthcare would be a more efficient way to pay for an already existing benefit. When uninsured c…

Reagan is not 'the right'. He's a member of the Republican party who served 50 years ago. And again, universal health care only saves money if you start with the basis that the government will force private companies to take on customers that can't pay for service, something that is very much not a right wing ideology.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea or a good idea, I'm just saying there is no basis for universal healthcare that doesn't start with 'we need to help people'. Same with social security. Same with many other left wing policies. A lot of the problems around market inefficiency in healthcare are perfectly solvable without helping the poor.

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