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Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#411
post #408

Reddit shows you your removed comments as if they're not removed, and you get no notification. I made a site that shows this [1]. Try it here [2]. [1] https://www.reveddit.com/about/faq/ [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/CantSayAnything/about/sticky

Is this a dark pattern? I'm ok with shadow bans if they're reserved for those egregiously abusive users who ruin the community for everyone else. Let them shout into the void.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#412

Although not software, gym memberships are notorious for using all manner of slimy tactics to keep you paying. Online reps can't do anything, your local gym somehow never has a "manager" around who can do anything. You can "freeze" your account but then they can just arbitrarily unfreeze and start charging you again. Very close to having my CC company issue a charge-back to our local gym for fraud. Very shady and hop…

I’m going through this with LA Fitness. They closed their location in downtown Bellevue, WA. The next closest location to me is many miles away, and I’m not going to take an Uber there $10 each way. I’ve been in person and was told to send them a form via mail. I did that 2 months ago. They charged me for March and they just slapped a charge end of April. I’ve called them, was told to come in person again, and told t…

I just called my credit-card company to block a company playing similar shenanigans yesterday. The credit-card representative seemed to think it would work.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#413
post #408

Reddit shows you your removed comments as if they're not removed, and you get no notification. I made a site that shows this [1]. Try it here [2]. [1] https://www.reveddit.com/about/faq/ [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/CantSayAnything/about/sticky

Is this a dark pattern? I'm ok with shadow bans if they're reserved for those egregiously abusive users who ruin the community for everyone else. Let them shout into the void.

I think it is dark to show you your comment as if it's not removed, and many say shadow removals are overused (see "what people say" [1]). Only the mods know it works this way.

[1] https://www.reveddit.com/about/

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#414
post #279
post #51

Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app. The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client. https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...

Does this mean that all apps that can’t also be used via the web are a ‘dark pattern’? I ask because I can easily imagine that if most customers are using apps, they might choose to remove functionality from the website rather than maintain it, just because it’s not worth it.

It can be used via the web, but it hides those features from you. If you're on a system where the desktop app cannot be installed, it reveals those features again. It's not that the features don't exist at all in the web version, they do but are hidden if you're capable of installing the app.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#415

Windows 10 does not respect the "default browser" setting when opening web-based content through apps. For example, clicking on "Help" links or search results from the start menu always opens in Edge. This seems far worse than their IE-bundling issue back in the day... at least users have a few web browsers to choose from, but what good is that when user preference is overridden?

Google does this even more egregiously with Android - my default browser is Firefox, but any links from Google News, Google Assistant and other Google software open in Chrome.

They're doing a similar thing with the gmail app, at least on iOS. Practically everything now opens within gmail instead of the actual app. Google Meet links now open in gmail instead of Google Meet. I know they're both owned by the same company... but I don't want to give the gmail app microphone and video permissions.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inflating the number intentionally would definitely be a dark pattern. Inflating the number intentionally would be criminal fraud, plain and simple. A dark pattern is making the „Delete account“ button smaller and grey while making the „No, take me back“ button huge and green. Literally lying with the intent of getting money from somebody is fraud and has nothing to do with dark pattern. Btw not attacking you perso…

> Inflating the number intentionally would be criminal fraud, plain and simple. With the amount of Math.floor(Math.random() * 1000) out there, I doubt any case has proven this to be something you can bring charges against a company for.

I'm sure there is a lawyer somewhere that is counting their percentage from when they win the rain maker of cases that takes the industry down on this fact alone. If only Grisham would write that novel.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#417

One example for sure is the endless CAPTCHAs you receive on virtually any large website when you attempt to connect from TOR. Each time you solve one it takes forever just to complain about how you spending several minutes selecting every 'light' suddenly isn't good enough to prove your humanity. You're not "checking if I'm human" 60 times in a row, you're blocking me for not wanting to be tracked on your website.

Can happen with non-TOR, too. Cloudflare is a cancer on the web for this kind of awfulness.

Google's captcha is orders of magnitude worse.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#418
I did not decide if I submit it there yet, but my current, and more common annoyance is with random, unwanted and unneeded items added to my cart sneakily at the end of the checkout process. Edible arrangements, flower places are the worst with this kind of behavior.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#419
post #27
post #17

The worst one is probably trying to make it hard for users to stop paying for a service, like cancelling a subscription. That shit should be punishable by literal prison time.

About 10yrs ago NBA did this to me. They made it impossible to cancel a $99/m sub. Their instructions were login and go to the cancel button but the cancel button was broken and said call this number. But no one ever picked up the number. I will never buy a NBA branded thing after that obvious bullshit scam.

One reason to use a company like Apple to concentrate your online subscriptions I’d possible - terminate there and it’s done.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#420
post #152

A common one is fake consent popups for system notifications. Websites need to ask for consent before sending system notifications via the Notifications API. If a user declines, that website is blocked from asking again (for obvious reasons) But many websites cheat this by showing a fake consent popup designed to mimic what the browser would show. If a user clicks "Decline" on the fake popup, the website won't show t…

A similar one is asking you to rate the app via the native modal (which does nothing) and if you rate with 5 stars they redirect you to the app store to vote there (where it counts). If you rate them with 1-3 stars they prompt you to leave feedback instead.

IIRC didn't Apple or Google start banning apps that did this?
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