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Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#51
Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app.

The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client.

https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#52
I was shopping on Eddie Bauer about 15 minutes ago. They have a great deal on t-shirts and shorts, which they plastered all over the page. It works like this - the more items you buy, you get a bigger discount.

Great - that makes sense. But there’s a catch. If I shop in a store, I simply go to the counter, get the discount upon checkout, pay, and I’m on my way.

On their website, I have to use a promo code. So I have to remember what the promo code was and enter it at checkout. Okay — that seems kind of like a dark pattern.

Here’s where they lost my trust. By the time I got to the checkout page, they asked for all my shipping and billing details and then gave me the final purchase button. I just happened to then realize that wait — I was supposed to enter in a promo code! So then I had to back out to find the promo code again, and on checkout, I have to scroll down a full screens worth of real estate BELOW the purchase button to enter the promo code.

So they advertise the discount up front but then use shady tactics hoping I either forget to use the promo code or even if I want to, I give up trying to find it and just pay full price.

Needless to say I decided not to purchase from them. It’s dishonest and not worthy of my business.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#53
post #10

Windows 10 does not respect the "default browser" setting when opening web-based content through apps. For example, clicking on "Help" links or search results from the start menu always opens in Edge. This seems far worse than their IE-bundling issue back in the day... at least users have a few web browsers to choose from, but what good is that when user preference is overridden?

If Microsoft could ensure that the target browser would properly show the help documentation, then the complaint would hold more weight.

If Microsoft can't hire people to be able to design a webpage that renders in all web browsers, then they have fallen much further than I would have even made fun of them.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#54
post #11

Ecommerce sites showing a "27 people are watching this right now" alongside the product but from source code it turns out to be a Math.random()

It’s fun to imagine the implications of dramatically raising the standard for commercial speech, such that statements which intend to mislead are prohibited.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#55
post #15

TrustArc is a company used by major brands that utilizes dark patterns to FAKE opt-out time for GDRP compliance. Major companies employ lies. It will hold your browser captive for 2 minutes in hopes that you cancel or accept all. If you don't, it shows "We are processing the requested change to your cookie preferences. This may take up to a few minutes to process.". Not even incompetence could make this an honest pro…

Well, given that some sites employ hundreds of trackers and other barely-above-malware stuff, it does make sense for these requests to take ages.

Unfortunately, many people simply click on the "accept all" button and don't care about their privacy that much.

The idea of GDPR was that consumers would be hesitant upon seeing the massive amount of third parties that use your data and demand change from the providers, turns out people don't care / providers rather let privacy-oriented customers suffer than to take a hit on their advertising profits.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#56
post #27
post #17

The worst one is probably trying to make it hard for users to stop paying for a service, like cancelling a subscription. That shit should be punishable by literal prison time.

About 10yrs ago NBA did this to me. They made it impossible to cancel a $99/m sub. Their instructions were login and go to the cancel button but the cancel button was broken and said call this number. But no one ever picked up the number. I will never buy a NBA branded thing after that obvious bullshit scam.

I do not know how it is in the US, but where I live those automatic subscriptions are cancelable (and usually refundable) by the user via the bank or credit card company if the company collecting it is not responding. This is very easy in the first 56 days and a bit harder afterwards. They can retry to collect but you can keep doing it. The idea is you send them a official letter telling them you revoke your authorization which they have to do, not adhering to that request is their problem not yours. Depending on the contract this might trigger fines or require you to front the entire bill at once but for normal recurring subscriptions this is not an issue and otherwise should be reasonable (paying a 'fine' higher than the total sum is not allowed for instance).

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#57
post #15

TrustArc is a company used by major brands that utilizes dark patterns to FAKE opt-out time for GDRP compliance. Major companies employ lies. It will hold your browser captive for 2 minutes in hopes that you cancel or accept all. If you don't, it shows "We are processing the requested change to your cookie preferences. This may take up to a few minutes to process.". Not even incompetence could make this an honest pro…

Well, given that some sites employ hundreds of trackers and other barely-above-malware stuff, it does make sense for these requests to take ages. Unfortunately, many people simply click on the "accept all" button and don't care about their privacy that much. The idea of GDPR was that consumers would be hesitant upon seeing the massive amount of third parties that use your data and demand change from the providers, tu…

The problem is their competitors manage to accomplish opting-out near instantly.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#58
post #15

TrustArc is a company used by major brands that utilizes dark patterns to FAKE opt-out time for GDRP compliance. Major companies employ lies. It will hold your browser captive for 2 minutes in hopes that you cancel or accept all. If you don't, it shows "We are processing the requested change to your cookie preferences. This may take up to a few minutes to process.". Not even incompetence could make this an honest pro…

Wow, that is pretty blatent. When EU stomps on them I'm sure someone else will pop up. Any chance the companies employing trustarc could be liable?

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#59

Windows 10 does not respect the "default browser" setting when opening web-based content through apps. For example, clicking on "Help" links or search results from the start menu always opens in Edge. This seems far worse than their IE-bundling issue back in the day... at least users have a few web browsers to choose from, but what good is that when user preference is overridden?

Google does this even more egregiously with Android - my default browser is Firefox, but any links from Google News, Google Assistant and other Google software open in Chrome.

There's a setting to change that.

It shouldn't have to be a separate setting from the overall default browser, but at least it's relatively easy to change.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#60
post #17

The worst one is probably trying to make it hard for users to stop paying for a service, like cancelling a subscription. That shit should be punishable by literal prison time.

The worst I’ve seen was Nord VPN. Three or four modals / screens where the action to stop your subscription was the smaller, secondary UI element, almost not even noticeable. How a dev or PM can live with themselves while implementing that I have no idea.

How a dev or PM can live with themselves while implementing that I have no idea.

Dev builds it the user-friendly way. PM uses Google Tag Manager to inject JS that changes the stylesheets to the evil way.

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