Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

regulations.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 542 posts

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#311

Post by tobiasSoftware »

lucb1e wrote: post #214
tobiasSoftware wrote: post #64

The dark pattern I've been seeing a lot lately is billing services trying to make you go paperless. I've seen all sorts of dark patterns around it, from subtle things such as it being the second of three options where you need to check options 1 and 3 every month, to it literally being checked by default and buried in the middle of a "we are just checking up on you to make sure you have all your options set correctly…

Genuine question: why'd you want bills to be shipped on paper? Is there some legal requirement to keep paper records in the USA and you don't want to have to own a printer or something? Every time I get a paper bill I'm annoyed, like, just send me an email, then I drag it into the right folder and it's done. Speedy, sortable, searchable. (Of course you will want to have back-ups, but one generally wants backups for o…

For me personally, my wife is an immigrant so a paper trail is important. Before that though, I think there was a time where companies didn't email out the records, so they'd keep the records for a year or two and then you would lose access to them, but the IRS wants several years if you get audited. Nowadays though, if it wasn't for my personal situation then I probably would have switched to saving off a digital record.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#312

Post by swiley »

chiefofgxbxl wrote: post #8

Windows 10 does not respect the "default browser" setting when opening web-based content through apps. For example, clicking on "Help" links or search results from the start menu always opens in Edge. This seems far worse than their IE-bundling issue back in the day... at least users have a few web browsers to choose from, but what good is that when user preference is overridden?

Microsoft sounds like one of the worst companies participating in the "just ignore or overwrite user settings" trend.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#313

Post by brundolf »

It's really no different from the deceptive advertising, food labels, etc. that were rampant at the beginning of the 20th century. I'm glad we appear to still have functioning regulatory bodies to deal with the new incarnations of the same old schemes.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#314

Post by swiley »

yawnxyz wrote: post #282

I hate it when Linkedin or Lunchclub does a "connect your friends!" and you accidentally click a button and it literally launches spam invites for your entire address book. Worst part is that NO ONE has ever called them out for such a dark pattern, but the pattern forces ppl to send unsolicited emails to their contacts AND pretends it's meant to be sent by the person. Incredibly devious

I completely stopped using linkedin once I realized they were doing this. I don't think my career has suffered.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#315

Post by lima »

jackson1442 wrote: post #169
chestervonwinch wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why this is a dark pattern? How does slack benefit from you using the native app vs. the web app?

I mean I personally keep Slack on my Dock since it's open pretty frequently. This integrates it even more into my workflow since I can quickly check and see if I have any unreads/etc. making it more grating to switch to another chat app. Maybe it's not a "dark pattern" but it certainly is a method to increase adoption.

You can do this with a browser like Chrome by creating a shortcut with "Open As Window".

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#316

Post by ryandrake »

steve-benjamins wrote: post #296

Web.com charges 13 months in a year. They bill months in 4 week intervals— so a month = 28 days which = 13 months per year. This is all in their fine print. Screenshot: https://twitter.com/stevebenjamins/status/138531992456700313...

Such a simple and blatant example of false advertising. Why does the FTC need to request comments? Just take action and crush this stuff! We are so careful about making businesses sad in this country.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#317

Post by jdgoesmarching »

bogwog wrote: post #157
Mixtape wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is just as guilty of this. If you want to see all the comments on a thread on their mobile site, you're pushed to install their official app and presumably create an account when doing so. As far as I can tell, the best workaround is to use the desktop site.

And on iOS at least, whenever you visit the site you'll get a popup that blocks the page with two options: continue in mobile app, or continue in safari. It's basically "install our shitty app, or keep using the web version?", except it's worded and displayed in a confusing/misleading way with what seems to be an attempt to mimic a system dialog.

Not to mention how awful their AMP pages (redundant, blame grammar) are already. Searching for topics on Reddit is a nightmare, you’re stuck with their awful native search, their awful mobile app, or the awful mobile site.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#318

Post by walrus01 »

fpig wrote: post #17

The worst one is probably trying to make it hard for users to stop paying for a service, like cancelling a subscription. That shit should be punishable by literal prison time.

> That shit should be punishable by literal prison time.

Forcible corporate dissolution, chapter 7 style.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#319

Post by ryandrake »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #299
zepto wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean that all apps that can’t also be used via the web are a ‘dark pattern’? I ask because I can easily imagine that if most customers are using apps, they might choose to remove functionality from the website rather than maintain it, just because it’s not worth it.

If it's something that makes more sense as a website, then yes. I would go so far as to say any app that doesn't work offline is likely a dark pattern

If they really don’t want people to use it on the web they should simply turn down the web site and tell people to use the app or GTFO. Instead they keep it up but cripple it and then repeatedly beg the user to something they clearly don’t want to do.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#320

Post by aj7 »

Here is what I wrote: There are straightforward language and practices that the FTC should mandate for online purchases.

1. The FIRST option in any screen or sequence that could result in a purchase must be affirmatively worded to clearly indicate a purchase is being made or a transition to a screen to purchase will be initiated by choosing that option. The word YES shall be included in any option to buy. 2. If second or subsequent options also initiate a purchase, they must similarly be affirmatively worded. 3. All sequences must TERMINATE with a negatively worded decline option, in the SAME font, size and style. 1-3 seek to enforce a standard wherein consumers can EXPECT the first and intermediate options to be BUYING options, and the last option to be a DECLINING option. 4. Double negative wording is not allowed. 5. Check boxes shall NEVER be pre-filled in. Use check boxes, they must all be blank. In general, an action by the consumer shall never be required to cancel a preinserted assent. 6. Purchasing screen. At some point, a screen is arrived at where the purchaser’s credit or bank information is obtained, and the purchase completed. Wording near the TOP of this screen, and in the LARGEST font visible on this screen must reinforce to the consumer that she is about to make a purchase. (Banks and airlines, which incur significant costs to correct purchases or payments consumers consider incorrect, are an excellent source of ideas for this screen.)

Post reply on HN