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Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#291

Post by mLuby »

thechao wrote: post #190
jrockway wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm highly in favor of making this illegal. My credit card expired and I switched my NYT subscription from through their website to through Apple (so I could cancel), and they sent my account to collections! Working with the collections agency to get it removed was easy, however. I guess the law that I would be in favor of is twofold: 1) You must be able to cancel subscriptions from the same website that you created…

I think unlimited recurring subscriptions should just not be allowed, period: all multipay plans should have a fixed & finite pay period, after which the service expires. Only the card holder has the unilateral right to re-establish the payments.

What if the user wants to cancel before the term is up? If that's allowed, there won't be discounts for annual plans. (Maybe not a bad thing, but maybe inefficient.)

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#292

Post by jozzy-james »

jozzy-james wrote: post #289
crmd wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fun to imagine the implications of dramatically raising the standard for commercial speech, such that statements which intend to mislead are prohibited.

apply it to physical stores, see how far it goes

my point being i did some stuff on 'x' available, hurry now - and went. and they never had them, but the difference is that i traded a quantifiable unit (human life expectancy) vs those online that just annoyed people

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#293

Post by elliekelly »

Well it’s quite clear that none of the commenters so far have read the document they’re commenting on and almost none of them seem able to distinguish between “software” and the internet.

And I can’t say I blame them. I know the fenty website isn’t software but what about facebook and amazon? I don’t really consider them software but I suppose most of their users access the site(s) through iOS and android apps which I would consider software.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#294

Post by m-ee »

chrischattin wrote: post #287

AirBnB doesn’t show what the place actually costs until you get to the “Reserve” screen. Then the cleaning fee, service fee, occupancy fees and taxes are added up. I’ve seen it literally double the advertised price. I’ve used AirBnB heavily over the past few years and am a huge fan of the business model in general. But, I view this practice as borderline unethical. I’m sure it A/B tests well, but it’s super annoying…

I’ve noticed recently that many of the places on Airbnb are also listed on VRBO, and usually cheaper for some reason. VRBO also lets you filter by total price from the start.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#295

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

thraway123412 wrote: post #283
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understood. I believe that, as a software developer, I am constantly encountering the classic "Do $20,000 worth of work for me for free." If I refuse, it can sometimes get quite unpleasant. As it so happens, I actually do a great deal of free software. The users can sometimes be a bit on the "knucklehead" side, but they usually respect my boundaries. The people that don't, tend to be business owners. I sort of expect…

Sure. I think we mostly stand on the same line here. I just tend to take hard stance against anything I find user hostile. Nagging, dark patterns, exploiting addictions, attempts at leeching personal information, lock-in, etcetra will quickly put you on my no buy list. I think those things are evil at worst and a waste of time and resources (in a global, zero-sum way) at best, and long term we'd be better off if ever…

Well, I did send them feedback, and pointed at the OP.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#296

Post by steve-benjamins »

Web.com charges 13 months in a year.

They bill months in 4 week intervals— so a month = 28 days which = 13 months per year. This is all in their fine print.

Screenshot: https://twitter.com/stevebenjamins/status/138531992456700313...

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#297

Post by thiht »

chiefofgxbxl wrote: post #8

Windows 10 does not respect the "default browser" setting when opening web-based content through apps. For example, clicking on "Help" links or search results from the start menu always opens in Edge. This seems far worse than their IE-bundling issue back in the day... at least users have a few web browsers to choose from, but what good is that when user preference is overridden?

Doesn't Apple do the same with Safari? On macOS I think Safari opens up sometimes even though my default browser is Firefox. Maybe when clicking links in Apple Mails? Not sure.

It's funny how Apple gets away when doing the same thing or worse than Windows, yet Windows is always the one getting criticism. Like how Apple always try to enable Siri after an update. Or how managing when an update should be done is incredibly worse on macOS than on Windows.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#298

Post by nopeYouAreWrong »

This might not belong here but I think there's something to be said for the changes Google makes and is currently making around Performance and Page Ranking. Black box bullsh!t metrics forcing everyone to appease the magical algorithms in their highly questionable tool. Their own framework fails here significantly.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#299

Post by dec0dedab0de »

zepto wrote: post #279
lima wrote: post #51

Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app. The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client. https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...

Does this mean that all apps that can’t also be used via the web are a ‘dark pattern’? I ask because I can easily imagine that if most customers are using apps, they might choose to remove functionality from the website rather than maintain it, just because it’s not worth it.

If it's something that makes more sense as a website, then yes. I would go so far as to say any app that doesn't work offline is likely a dark pattern
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