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Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#141

Post by ratww »

mschuster91 wrote: post #55
iankp wrote: post #15

TrustArc is a company used by major brands that utilizes dark patterns to FAKE opt-out time for GDRP compliance. Major companies employ lies. It will hold your browser captive for 2 minutes in hopes that you cancel or accept all. If you don't, it shows "We are processing the requested change to your cookie preferences. This may take up to a few minutes to process.". Not even incompetence could make this an honest pro…

Well, given that some sites employ hundreds of trackers and other barely-above-malware stuff, it does make sense for these requests to take ages. Unfortunately, many people simply click on the "accept all" button and don't care about their privacy that much. The idea of GDPR was that consumers would be hesitant upon seeing the massive amount of third parties that use your data and demand change from the providers, tu…

> Well, given that some sites employ hundreds of trackers and other barely-above-malware stuff, it does make sense for these requests to take ages.

Last time I checked, there were no requests being made client-side in the 1-2 minutes it took to cancel. It was pretty much the same number of requests for both accepting and denying. Maybe they changed it since it's too blatant.

Also, since it should be opt-in, then accepting should obviously take longer.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#142

Post by godelski »

lima wrote: post #51

Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app. The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client. https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...

I'm just impressed how bad slack is on mobile. Either I'm getting messages on my computer and phone (on phone after I've responded on the computer) or not at all.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#143

Post by est31 »

Mixtape wrote: post #71
lima wrote: post #51

Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app. The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client. https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...

Reddit is just as guilty of this. If you want to see all the comments on a thread on their mobile site, you're pushed to install their official app and presumably create an account when doing so. As far as I can tell, the best workaround is to use the desktop site.

I use i.reddit.com. I think it was their old mobile site. Works like a charm.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#144

Post by diveanon »

kingsuper20 wrote: post #133

The internet was nice while it lasted. I'm thinking that that guy on youtube who builds cabins from scratch in Canada with the charming Golden Retriever ('My Self Reliance') probably has the right idea. Maybe the right answer is a terminal that does email, banking, and Amazon.

How can you bemoan what the internet has become and support Amazon in the comment?

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#145

Post by chestervonwinch »

lima wrote: post #51

Slack has a fun dark pattern - they purposefully remove functionality from their web app to make you install their native app. The web app has a workspace switcher sidebar, but it only appears on ChromeOS, where you can't install the native client. https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/144258/slacks-we...

Can you explain why this is a dark pattern? How does slack benefit from you using the native app vs. the web app?

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#146

Post by andy_ppp »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #44
dmix wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 10yrs ago NBA did this to me. They made it impossible to cancel a $99/m sub. Their instructions were login and go to the cancel button but the cancel button was broken and said call this number. But no one ever picked up the number. I will never buy a NBA branded thing after that obvious bullshit scam.

New York Times does this also. As far as I can tell it's literally impossible to cancel a subscription. I had to close the card attached to my account.

It really does make you wonder that “the paper of record” deals in such immoral actions what else they are willing to compromise on. I seem to remember Pg being completely misrepresented by the same paper [1]. Maybe they are just really unethical people with a good brand.

[1] https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1236975851255857152

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#147

Post by ratww »

airstrike wrote: post #20
mimsee wrote: post #11

Ecommerce sites showing a "27 people are watching this right now" alongside the product but from source code it turns out to be a Math.random()

As disingenuous as this may be, I feel it's probably not one of the most harmful examples

When it's using Math.random(), it kinda is.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#148

Post by anoncow »

The FTC should create a set of guidelines named for example "Good Software Design Practices" (either directly or through an industry standards body) which developers can follow voluntarily. Companies or bodies should then be able to rate software objectively based on the GSDP using a lay-public friendly star rating. The rating could be further broken up into sub-ratings for specific design sub-topics.

This could then become a default way for companies to self-appraise their software on distribution platforms. Anyone including distribution platforms should be able to validate such ratings based on certain objective criteria.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#149

Post by throwawayboise »

astrea wrote: post #73
shiftpgdn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York Times does this also. As far as I can tell it's literally impossible to cancel a subscription. I had to close the card attached to my account.

My girlfriend and I were both able to cancel. The number worked for us, but we had to say no through a bunch of sales pitches before we got it successfully canceled.

> we had to say no through a bunch of sales pitches

Just repeat the phrase "I want to cancel my subscription" to any question they ask. They'll get the message pretty quickly.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#150

Post by kingsuper20 »

diveanon wrote: post #144
kingsuper20 wrote: post #133

The internet was nice while it lasted. I'm thinking that that guy on youtube who builds cabins from scratch in Canada with the charming Golden Retriever ('My Self Reliance') probably has the right idea. Maybe the right answer is a terminal that does email, banking, and Amazon.

How can you bemoan what the internet has become and support Amazon in the comment?

Because they are one of the few internet companies that I find actually useful. If you live in a rural area, there's really no other way. A new PC, a floor jack, large book store, decent boots, are all 60 miles away. Of course, Amazon caused part of the retail desert, although I'd mostly blame box stores (and the Sears catalog before that).

With the sites I named, I think my life would trundle on pretty much unchanged. Maybe Usenet could be added to the list for the odd bit of online socializing.

While I'm designing my personal minimal internet, I'd add that all the interfaces were text based. Potentially a person could bolt on a low/no vision voice-based front-end.

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