Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#471

Post by johnnyanmac » Sun, May 02, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #323

mikenew wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users and consumers to live without them It is, unfortunately, not a faulty assumption. I'm a piano teacher on YouTube, and I'm able to make money there. My entire audience was developed through the platform. I put videos on platforms like Vimeo or even Peertube, and I've had more views in one day on YouTube than their entire lifetime on those other platforms com…

Any creator with established audience can bring those people to alternative platform, e.g., Peertube. Start from posting videos on both platforms and advertise the other one. Then post videos on Peertube earlier .

In all fairness, I think Mixer employing this exact strategy showed that it is extremely hard to migrate communities. Even with creators making millions of dollars a year.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#472

Post by johnnyanmac » Sun, May 02, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #421

robbrown451 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is completely on Google/Youtube. " What about the copyright trolls that are filing claims for content they don't own, forcing Google into an arms race with them. Even when the system is working "correctly" it is broken. If I take a video of my kid dancing to a song, I often can't share it with my family on YouTube. That's messed up.

Is it messed up, though? Suppose your video goes crazy viral, has 12 million views, you monetize it, earn some modest figure on the thing. What forces you to pay the song's creators/copyright holders? What would make you think you should not pay them? Obviously, this is an unlikely scenario, but where's the threshold at which it becomes important? Monetization? First million views? Theoretical monetization? Actual pa…

that notion is why I imagine Google added a threshold before a channel can be monetized. So the payment details here are moot unless you are already an established channel who should know this. Regardless, this is less about a random user "making money off music they don't own" and more about the potential that users aren't instead going to Vevo to make the music company ad revenue.

I have my qualms on DMCA as a whole, but this is ultimately tangential to the real issue of the lack of consequences for perjury.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#473

Post by johnnyanmac » Sun, May 02, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

jtriangle wrote: post #434

robbrown451 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And put your content where? What should this piano teacher do? This is partially the fault of YouTube/Google, but also copyright law in general. It's broken. This community, right here, could collaborate and force changes upon the powers that be. Boycotting Google and YouTube isn't going to do it though.

Many, many creators who's content is not youtube friendly are hosting their videos off platform (no shortage of options there) and only posting previews on youtube to direct their subscribers and anyone who happens upon their videos to an external site. Google makes this moderately difficult of course, but it seems to be a viable option when coupled with patreon (where you usually get more content/early access/more c…

>To answer your question succinctly, no, you don't want "other youtube" you want something sufficiently different to avoid youtube's pitfalls.

I argue "other youtube would suffice". We see this with Youtube streaming needing to actually compete due to Twitch existing, and vice versa. There's still the likely issue that they both fall into legal troll pitfalls, but I argue that they will avoid more of them in an attempt to compete for a better service.

With video hosting, Youtube doesn't need to compete.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#474

Post by johnnyanmac » Sun, May 02, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #357

josteink wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And put your content where? Vimeo? Peertube? Facebook? Self hosted website? Anywhere?

>Vimeo? Peertube? Facebook? Self hosted website? Anywhere? Those proposed alternatives don't address why the content creators like this piano teacher put their tutorials on Youtube : ++ $0 in hosting and bandwidth costs: self-hosted costs money that's often unpredictable , and Vimeo has platform membership fees ++ ad revenue to help make the effort of producing a video worthwhile : Peertube does not have relationship…

>But she doesn't want the ad monetization money stolen from her by a fraudulent claim.

she's making $0 now regardless. May as well do a small jab in spite of it by promoting other places. More likely she'd probably just stop hosting videos and switch to a different format, like private tutoring.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#475

Post by johnnyanmac » Sun, May 02, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

zentiggr wrote: post #364

kzrdude wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone uses youtube. Local businesses use youtube. I took driving lessons and they use it. Small tech companies use it to host their promo videos, and so on. So people use it without even needing the "reach" that youtube can provide - it's just being used for hosting.

Again and again the same basic "but it's free" refrain. Sure, building on quicksand is free. No one wants to pay for a service that is as undependable, and impossible to appeal in case of fraudulent or just mistaken bans. So go ahead and build on that quicksand... but do it knowing so, and stop complaining when the quicksand swallows you. There might not be much land around the edge of the quicksand patch, but it's s…

I think the point here is that users don't have much option, not the hosts. If the DMV uploads instructional videos to Youtube, it's hard to boycott google if you want a license.

Meanwhile, I don't think the State govt.is going to care much about convoluted processes against takedowns. That's just Tuesday for them, they aren't gonna fight google on this despite technically having the resources.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#476

Post by johnnyanmac » Sun, May 02, 2021, 9:36 PM UTC

tom-_- wrote: post #291

blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

As a content creator, you want the platform to protect your copyright and at YouTube's scale, copyright scanners are the only way to implement this. Will they produce false positives? Of course. Do the benefits to content creators outweigh the costs of these false positives? Yes if you believe creative content should be protected. The only other viable model for content creators are subscription based services like P…

>Will they produce false positives? Of course. Do the benefits to content creators outweigh the costs of these false positives? Yes if you believe creative content should be protected.

False positives are absolutely unacceptable when it comes to anything dealing money. I sure wouldn't stick with a bank if they said "oh well, false positives happen. you'll get your money next week... maybe".

but there are several banks that help ensure that security. There are no checks to google allowing for such false positives.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#477

Post by johnnyanmac » Sun, May 02, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

moron4hire wrote: post #212

qwertox wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Feed a computer with MIDI files of public domain music and render it as audio 2) Upload to YouTube 3) File copyright dispute to YouTube for any (future?) uploaded video which contains the music which used to be in the public domain 4) Have Google reject the videos 5) Create a site or an app which allows you to license that public domain music for a fee. 6) Notify YouTube who has licensed this public domain music.…

You have YouTube's content rating system backwards. It's not "racey content gets marked special" with "suitable for children" being a catch-all category. YouTube's "content developed for children", is the special case. It's explicitly content meant for and marketed to children, or content that children would be particularly attracted to, like nature documentaries. All other content should be marked "not intended for…

>or content that children would be particularly attracted to, like nature documentaries.

maybe times have changed, but you could not pay me to sit through a nature documentary back when I was 8.

nature content is a very weird gray area of content in terms of age ratings. It's technically just, well, nature. But then there can definitely be "just nature" content you don't want a kid to see.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#478

Post by robbrown451 » Sun, May 02, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

jtriangle wrote: post #434

robbrown451 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And put your content where? What should this piano teacher do? This is partially the fault of YouTube/Google, but also copyright law in general. It's broken. This community, right here, could collaborate and force changes upon the powers that be. Boycotting Google and YouTube isn't going to do it though.

Many, many creators who's content is not youtube friendly are hosting their videos off platform (no shortage of options there) and only posting previews on youtube to direct their subscribers and anyone who happens upon their videos to an external site. Google makes this moderately difficult of course, but it seems to be a viable option when coupled with patreon (where you usually get more content/early access/more c…

I think you are referring to porn. Yes, there are places people can post porn and get views and monetize them.

I don't think that helps piano teachers and the like.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#479

Post by johnnyanmac » Sun, May 02, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

RogerL wrote: post #298

blondin wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same here. i am a big fan of film music. i made a small piano reduction of a favorite piece and uploaded it to youtube. i wasn't even mad when i saw the copyright claim within hours, since i run no ads. i was however baffled and somewhat proud that my efforts were not in vain, and that the algorithm thought my poor interpretation was close to the real thing. i do not defend the algorithm though.

You are not allowed to create derivative works from another person's creation, regardless of whether you are making money from it. You can't go and make a Shrek III flick, for example, or write a book set in the Harry Potter universe. Likewise, you can't adapt music from a film (IANAL, there are things like fair use, but in general this holds). https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

depends on the derivative. I can't make a story about hogwarts. But I can make a story about a girl with a scar who gets enrolled in a magical academy. And I probably just described 20 works with that description. But I think the legal definition of "derivative work" isn't that loose.

The more gray areas for derivative work is stuff like fan art, translations, and remixes. All are technically in the area to be copyright'd, but at the same time it also helps publishers in essentially being free, natural advertisement.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#480

Post by johnnyanmac » Sun, May 02, 2021, 10:10 PM UTC

leephillips wrote: post #172

falcolas wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> install Apache > video embed tags > ffmpeg > That's it You're thinking like an engineer. To a non-technical person, that's a lot. I'd even go so far as to say it's prohibitively difficult for anyone outside of our profession. I'll even say that it's going to be difficult even for folks within our profession. Finding someone who can launch and configure Apache properly (i.e. in a way which won't get it quickly recon…

I mentioned the tradeoff involved in a later comment. The difference between a technical person and a non-technical person is that the former has decided to learn what is needed to do what he or she wants to do. It’s not a secret club. All the information is on the internet. I never went to Apache engineering school, I have been running my own sites and others for many years, and no one has taken anything over for po…

>The difference between a technical person and a non-technical person is that the former has decided to learn what is needed to do what he or she wants to do

that feels overly reductive and conductive to the majority of trades and hobbies today. If a court ruled based on this concept, antitrust wouldn't exist as a concept.

"the difference between an artistic person and a non-artistic person is that the former decided to learn what is needed. All the information is on the internet"

"the difference between a Spanish speaking person and a non-spanish speaking person is that the former decided to learn what is needed. All the information is on the internet"

"the difference between a guitar player and a non-guitar player is that the former decided to learn what is needed. All the information is on the internet"

The more common case of this is :

1. most people aren't "motivated" enough to learn a new skill, especially one that is only indirect to their goal. I COULD learn HTML and host my own website, or I pay some template site $30 and get my portfolio up. Even back in my college days, $30 was worth an a few hours of my work time. well worth a few hours to let someone else keep my portfolio up. Paid off well in hindsight.

2. There isn't time to lean every sub step to your goal, which is why various scaffolding exists. I didn't need to understand how my OS, web browser, nor web server worked in order to send this comment. And I wouldn't send it if it wasn't convenient to do so.