Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#271

Post by toyg » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

tremon wrote: post #226

jeffwass wrote: post #10

Summary for those that don’t want to watch the video : - Pianist creates YouTube video demonstrating how to play Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata - part of this video includes her playing Moonlight Sonata (of course) - YouTube has a new ‘feature’ that scans submitted videos prior to publication to identify potentially copyrighted material - her video is found to include copyrighted material. She is certain this is a mist…

is worried about all the time she’s putting in to create content being usurped by a few bad actors Is this where we must point out that the entire ContentID system was designed to protect bad actors, because it was written by them?

One could argue that the DMCA was largely written by bad actors. Everything else flows downhill from there.

The “western” world lost a once-in-a-thousand-years chance to change how copyright works at a fundamental level, when the internet started getting traction. We’re now forever beholden to the whims of parasitical “industries”.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#272

Post by cronix » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

Rick Beato explains a lot of this very well. He's even testified in congress about this subject. Here's a good explanatory video of his on this subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5lY_DbUsok

It's slightly different as the music he uses actually has existing copyright, but along the same lines.

"You can't teach people music without giving examples. I can't do something like, 'well you know, this is like Led Zeppelin, or like Bach'...this is something I created and you're going to learn from it... No, you have to learn from the actual sources."

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#273

Post by Normille » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

Iv wrote: post #69

Normille wrote: post #65

I don't know what I find more annoying; the ridiculous US copyright system that allows people to copyright almost 'anything'... or the unfathomably stupid people employed by the likes of Amazon, YouTube et al whose policies seem to be "Ban first. Ask questions later... Bu let's not bother with the questions" It doesn't surprise me that a 200 years dead composer's works are considered subject to copyright when, appare…

The policies are directly caused by the laws. If google does not react swiftly, it is considered guilty of copyright infringement. Remove the laws, the policies are instantly removes as well.

  >If google does not react swiftly, it is considered guilty of copyright infringement.

Only if a copyright infringement has actually taken place.

The problem is that none of these companies ever apply a gramme of logic or examine the merits of the claim, when someone cries 'copyright infringement'. They just automatically remove the 'offending' article and refuse to countenance any counter-arguments from the person accused.

It's this supine attitude which, I reckon, is fuelling all these ridiculous claims. I just wish that the likes of Amazon, Google, YouTube, RedBubble... etc. would call the copyright trolls' bluff occasionally and not just instantly cave. Every. Single. Time.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#274

Post by bcrescimanno » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

I agree with your assessment of Google; however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? You kinda have to go where the audience will be if you don't already have one and I'm not aware of any video discovery platforms with anywhere near the reach of YouTube. I've managed to get out of Google products almost entirely--YouTube remains the exception.

Moreover, let's say a new site comes along and dethrones YouTube. Remember that this whole mess started because of lawsuits that were ultimately ruled (or settled) in favor of copyright holders. Any player in this space will need a method for handling vast quantities of copyrighted material scanning and, like Google, will be heavily incentivized by legal precedent to have that system "err on the side of caution."

I'm not a fan of Google; but, the villain of this story is the horribly outdated and corporate-lobbied copyright system that will push any player in the video space to this kind of draconian approach.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#275

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

treesprite82 wrote: post #157

qwertox wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Feed a computer with MIDI files of public domain music and render it as audio 2) Upload to YouTube 3) File copyright dispute to YouTube for any (future?) uploaded video which contains the music which used to be in the public domain 4) Have Google reject the videos 5) Create a site or an app which allows you to license that public domain music for a fee. 6) Notify YouTube who has licensed this public domain music.…

> which is kind of bad, because now the support team must log-in with a Google account to YouTube in order to see the harmless but useful video. Not only this, but in the EU* it requires verifying your age with a credit card or ID photo: https://i.imgur.com/gP20dXi.png

[deleted]

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#276

Post by kzrdude » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

Everyone uses youtube. Local businesses use youtube. I took driving lessons and they use it. Small tech companies use it to host their promo videos, and so on. So people use it without even needing the "reach" that youtube can provide - it's just being used for hosting.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#277

Post by 6510 » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

All that is true of course but I think the bigger issue is that the copyright system has to go or at least change dramatically. People walk around with video cameras now 24/7, they want to add music to their video. We should facilitate this.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#278

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

Normille wrote: post #273

Iv wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The policies are directly caused by the laws. If google does not react swiftly, it is considered guilty of copyright infringement. Remove the laws, the policies are instantly removes as well.

>If google does not react swiftly, it is considered guilty of copyright infringement. Only if a copyright infringement has actually taken place. The problem is that none of these companies ever apply a gramme of logic or examine the merits of the claim, when someone cries 'copyright infringement'. They just automatically remove the 'offending' article and refuse to countenance any counter-arguments from the person ac…

> The problem is that none of these companies ever apply a gramme of logic or examine the merits of the claim

True, but, TBF, evaluating merits doesn’t scale, the authors of the safe harbor provision knew this, and this is exactly the outcome the law intended, though it does not mandate it.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#279

Post by teach » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

chrismorgan wrote: post #228

maweki wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that that is what was claimed. I said that two actual and copyrightable performances of the same melody are arguably indistinguishable. Edit: How would an automated system know, that you did not just non-transformatively alter another person's performance, instead of performing yourself?

I have gained the impression that YouTube has two distinct techniques within Content ID, one for claiming melodies, and another for claiming specific recordings. I’m absolutely confident that this is doing melody matching: these recordings are trivially distinguishable from any professional performance, with completely different instruments and playing styles, and with much lower quality singing. For example, the mos…

My experience aligns with yours. I had a video of a half-hour coffee-shop-style gig blocked because at one point I covered "Hotel California". This was just me -- one voice, one acoustic guitar played poorly, and was down a whole step from the original key.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#280

Post by ergot_vacation » Sat, May 01, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

blacklight wrote: post #262

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again. Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users…

More and more, ordinary people are not citizens in a nation, with a balance of rights and responsibilities afforded to them, but simply cattle: a resource to be cultivated, controlled, and harvested. This is true online, but also increasingly off. People are still operating under the outdated notion that corporations, banks and government institutions can be held to account because they are in some way vulnerable to the displeasure of ordinary people. They cannot, and are not.

Youtube does not care about your happiness. Their business model is unrelated to it. Youtube, like Google, is in the business of gathering up a bunch of delicious users and bolt-gunning and butchering them so they can be served up to ad partners for a tidy sum. In this arrangement, the happiness of the livestock hardly matters.