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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#391

Post by nolok »

Lots of comments around the line of "ok maybe 30% is too much, but we can all agree they offer a valuable service, so what percentage should they take ?"

Uhhhh, not a percentage ? Do you imagine AWS billing you a % of your revenue instead of a given price for a given service ?

Give a price to be listed in store, to be reviewed, to be downloaded by a user, ... And let company pay what they owe you. Let them pay through the provider they can negotiate and then pay you back the cost they owe you.

It's ridiculous that it doesn't matter if my app has a 5$ sub or a 50$ sub, I owe them 30% anyway. What they provided is the same in both cases, they should be able to price it out to me. Their current pricing structure is not setup like a fee for services and infrastructure usage, it's setup like a tax.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#392

Post by benhurmarcel »

simonh wrote: post #32
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

It's 30% for the first year of subscriptions and 15% thereafter. According to Apple in 2019 Spotify didn't actually pay 30% on any of it's subscriptions at that time, and only paid the 15% on 0.5% of the App's users. The rest are ad supported and Apple gets 0% of the ad revenue. So for every Spotify app user Apple get's a 15% fee for, there are 199 Spotify app users Apple is distributing the App to for which they get…

> only paid the 15% on 0.5% of the App's users.

That's the point.

This is clearly because they removed the ability to subscribe in the app to avoid paying those 15%. So the rule imposed by Apple is costing them subscribers, all those who would have subscribed if it was available in the app (or even just if they could be informed about how to subscribe).

The fact that Spotify has barely no customer who subscribe through their app is showing that there's anticompetitive behavior. In a healthy market they would have a share there.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#393

Post by bzzzt »

gambiting wrote: post #269
breakfastduck wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple holds a gigantic market in their grasp and by controlling it so tightly and by forcing everyone to use their billing, they give the customers what they want . If iOS becomes the android wild west it'll kill the entire selling point of the iPhone. To me, the iPhone is the equivalent of buying a games console instead of a gaming PC. Less flexibility, less to worry about. 'Its just a phone'.

>>If iOS becomes the android wild west it'll kill the entire selling point of the iPhone. What always baffles me, truly leaves me flabbergasted and confused, is.....who is going to force you to use any other app store other than the Apple Store?? I'm on Android, and yes, there are other stores that exist - you can download the Amazon Fire store or many others, or even sideload apps......or......shocking......you can…

>> What always baffles me, truly leaves me flabbergasted and confused, is.....who is going to force you to use any other app store other than the Apple Store??

Think of the new privacy controls: Facebook doesn't like them. So they open their own iOS store, circumventing all Apple rules concerning privacy labels and do not track status.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#394

Post by pudmaidai »

okwubodu wrote: post #379
jonplackett wrote: post #369

The more Apple have tried to strangle Spotify, the more I am determined to wait this out and get Spotify working properly on Siri and Watch. Every time I accidentally say "Siri play ${song_name}" without appending "on Spotify" and Siri nonchalantly replies that it cannot find ${song_name} in my Apple Music library, I double down on my determination not to let them win! Wasn't the default app thing declared a problem…

On iOS 14.5 Siri will occasionally ask which service you meant and use that as the default for a while. Although that’s just a “soft” default. If I press play on my headphones with both Spotify and AM closed it still latches to Apple Music.

I just asked to use Spotify as soon as I updated and now it doesn’t ask anymore. I don’t remember the exact query, but I know it exists.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#395

Post by onwchristian »

slver wrote: post #188
falcor84 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is with 'internally'. As I understand it, the antitrust regulations could force Apple to spin Apple Music out.

Let's take a step and ponder wouldn't you find it bizarre to have this sequence of events: 1. Apple creates iPod, and iTunes serves as its music store. 2. Apple creates iPhone, which has an iPod app. 3. Apple introduces App Store so other apps can be used on the iPhone. 4. iPod (Apple Music) competitors emerge. 5. EU says "that's it, Apple can't have iPod anymore on the phone unless iPod (Apple Music) becomes a separ…

Note: back in the iPod days, iTunes did serve as a music store for the iPod, but you could buy MP3 files from other providers as well, and transfer them to the iPod via iTunes. This whole process didn't "cost" the provider or user any extra.

Now, it's true that iTunes did get significant traction because of convenience for users of iPods, however there were definitely options for other music distributors. In fact, back in those days, I tended to still buy CDs because they were DRM-free and similarly priced, and I could rip the songs at my selected quality settings to transfer to my iPod.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#396

Post by cletus »

polskibus wrote: post #157
cletus wrote: post #145

So Apple's ecosystem does two things: 1. it gatekeeps what's in the App Store. This is of course controversial but is a net positive for consumers (IMHO); and 2. It provides a convenient payments infrastructure. I certainly hope no government forces Apple to allow third-party App stores. Just look at what a mess this is on the PC where there are a million launchers (eg Steam, Epic, Ubisoft, Rockstar) and nearly all o…

Apple could just stop offering own apps. Utility companies are often regulated similarly - in many countries you can be either an energy producer or grid, not both.

This same idea comes up with Google search results.

For example, if you search for "mortgage calculator" you get a widget you can use directly. If you click on any of the links it takes forever to load (because it's loading 137 different tracking cookies), you're prompted to sign up to their newsletter, there are ads, the calculator is spread across multiple pages (because, hey, that's more impressions) and so on.

It's a terrible user experience.

So my point is a blanket ban of "competing" is likely to be worse for the consumer.

For this example, Apple has a lot of experience with music, a lot of deals in place and developed the iTunes ecosystem. I don't have an issue with them trying to sell a subscription music service. A blanket ban on this seems like an overreaction.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#397

Post by MperorM »

nolok wrote: post #391

Lots of comments around the line of "ok maybe 30% is too much, but we can all agree they offer a valuable service, so what percentage should they take ?" Uhhhh, not a percentage ? Do you imagine AWS billing you a % of your revenue instead of a given price for a given service ? Give a price to be listed in store, to be reviewed, to be downloaded by a user, ... And let company pay what they owe you. Let them pay throug…

Or do like apple and charge both!

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#399

Post by cletus »

alickz wrote: post #256
cletus wrote: post #145

So Apple's ecosystem does two things: 1. it gatekeeps what's in the App Store. This is of course controversial but is a net positive for consumers (IMHO); and 2. It provides a convenient payments infrastructure. I certainly hope no government forces Apple to allow third-party App stores. Just look at what a mess this is on the PC where there are a million launchers (eg Steam, Epic, Ubisoft, Rockstar) and nearly all o…

> Just look at what a mess this is on the PC where there are a million launchers Which has resulted in some much needed competition for Steam, particularly around dev cuts. Also just look at macOS, would anyone really prefer to only be able to install mac apps from the Mac App Store? Would the benefits of forcing users and devs through the Mac App Store outweigh the benefits of users being able to install whichever s…

Users sideloading apps on their phones is likely to be a benefit to like 5,000 people and an attack vector for 3 billion.

As for Steam, you don't have to use it as a game publisher, as in you could always sell physical media (up until the past few years) or a download. As a consumer I'll pretty much always prefer buying a game through Steam. I hate all these other launchers that you have to now use for like one title because they suck.

This same "me too" philosophy is ruining online content distribution where once Netflix was so good. Just look at the difficulty in finding out if a given movie or TV show is on any of your services. There's really no good way to do that. I've seen websites that try but they also include Amazon, Google Play and iTunes where you can buy that content when all I'm interested in is where it streams for free. It just sucks.

More is not always better.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#400

Post by cblconfederate »

qwytw wrote: post #376
cblconfederate wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can third parties sell apps there?

Are you implying that Apple should be punished for offering a more open platform than some other companies?

Apple claims to have a market. Apparently bmw doesn't have one. (does it?)
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