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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#361

Post by piaste »

dustinmoris wrote: post #34
teknopaul wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

starting first does not mean you are not abusing your monopoly. Another way of looking at this is that a 30% margin is preventing a lot of businesses from happening until Apple do it. The 30% is less of a concern that the fact that they can shut you down on a whim.

It’s hardly abuse if Apple was the first to invent an iPod and iTunes and the online music business and then evolved their own products around their own offerings. They decided to let others into their own platform to enrich it, not to crush them. Spotify entered knowing that Apple already had a competing product. Why did they enter and start competing if they thought it was an unfair competition from the start? I fi…

> So if Apple would basically not have an AppStore for third parties and only distribute their own apps then it would be fair.

> If Apple was to not allow other Music apps on their AppStore then it would be fair.

> But when Apple allows others to distribute a competing product to Apple on Apple’s own platform for a fee then it is considered unfair?

> I honestly don’t understand this logic.

I mean, it's kind of textbook vertical monopoly.

Selling Windows is fine - you're competing over who makes the better OS. Selling Internet Explorer is fine - you're competing over who makes the better web browser.

But using Windows to push Internet Explorer is not fine - you're using your unrelated OS superiority to fight off Netscape Navigator.

It's a distorted market because the consumer is induced to go with iTunes over Spotify not because iTunes has the more appealing product, but because Apple makes iPhones. If the exact same software as iTunes was made by a non-Apple company, it wouldn't necessarily compete.

--

And I'm not sure it would be "fair" if AppStore didn't allow music apps, either. With web browsers and app stores, there's a decent case to be made that allowing those apps would compromise the iPhone product/ecosystem as a whole (although I'm personally of the "It's my phone and I demand to be able to install whatever the hell I want on it" philosophy and loathe walled gardens in all forms). Banning music apps simply because they compete with their own product would likely attract Vestager's ire just as well.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#362

Post by matkoniecz »

jgwil2 wrote: post #276
mrep wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With that accounting methodology, between the 30% apple store cut and the 70% music publishers cut, Apple music is left with no revenue whatsoever to fund their service, therefore running it at a 100% loss and thus price dumping which is also illegal.

I think dumping is only illegal in the context of international trade. Not sure of the nuances but operating at a loss certainly isn't illegal in most contexts.

Not entirely sure about legality within country, but anyway Spotify is a Swedish company ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify ) .

So it is international already.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#363

Post by trapped »

cblconfederate wrote: post #357
trapped wrote: post #342

Why doesn't EU force European automakers with same laws? Users need to pay extra to even use freely provided Apple CarPlay on BMW. European Car makers have monopoly in the app ecosystem installed in the cars. Where is alternative App store for BMW, Benz, Audi, VW ?

is there an app ecosystem in cars?

In car entertainment provided by car makers have app ecosystem and fully controlled by car makers.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#364

Post by pydry »

jgwil2 wrote: post #276
mrep wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With that accounting methodology, between the 30% apple store cut and the 70% music publishers cut, Apple music is left with no revenue whatsoever to fund their service, therefore running it at a 100% loss and thus price dumping which is also illegal.

I think dumping is only illegal in the context of international trade. Not sure of the nuances but operating at a loss certainly isn't illegal in most contexts.

It is technically illegal but thanks to a lack of appetite from antitrust prosecutors to do... well, anything very much combined with a high barrier of proof it's essentially allowed.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#365

Post by cblconfederate »

endisneigh wrote: post #172
polskibus wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple could just stop offering own apps. Utility companies are often regulated similarly - in many countries you can be either an energy producer or grid, not both.

Why do people compare luxury phone products to utilities lol. Do people honestly believe access to electricity and to iPhones are in any way comparable?

During the pandemic many governments use phones to coordinate lockdowns

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#366

Post by Kye »

ethbr0 wrote: post #354
breakfastduck wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple have been in the music business much longer than Spotify.

> Apple have been in the music business much longer than Spotify Since 1968 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Records

This has no connection with the computer company. There have been numerous disputes over the confusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#367

Post by briandear »

yunohn wrote: post #146
f6v wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think EU cares about fair competition, rather being petty about not having their own FAANG.

You know what? The funny thing is that all of FAANG has their international HQs in the EU (Dublin, Ireland) for tax evasion purposes. I’d argue they are more reliant on the EU then.

Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is rational. Other EU countries have the ability to lower taxes right? It’s ironic that the EU is suing Apple because Spotify doesn’t want to pay 15% to Apple, yet the same people complaining of that have no problem with Apple attempting to avoid higher costs by having a non-Irish EU headquarters.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#368

Post by mlok »

ethbr0 wrote: post #354
breakfastduck wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple have been in the music business much longer than Spotify.

> Apple have been in the music business much longer than Spotify Since 1968 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Records

Your assumption is wrong and this is precisely why "The Beatles Apple" attacked "Steve Jobs Apple" on the Trademark front.

Source : a part of the article you linked to : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps#Apple_Corps_v._A...

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#369

Post by jonplackett »

The more Apple have tried to strangle Spotify, the more I am determined to wait this out and get Spotify working properly on Siri and Watch.

Every time I accidentally say "Siri play ${song_name}" without appending "on Spotify" and Siri nonchalantly replies that it cannot find ${song_name} in my Apple Music library, I double down on my determination not to let them win!

Wasn't the default app thing declared a problem decades ago when Microsoft made you use IE? Why is Apple still allowed to force me to have Apple Music (and Apple Maps) as my defaults?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#370

Post by cblconfederate »

trapped wrote: post #363
cblconfederate wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there an app ecosystem in cars?

In car entertainment provided by car makers have app ecosystem and fully controlled by car makers.

Can third parties sell apps there?
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