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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

171–180 of 825 posts

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#171
post #9

It's not clear to me from the article what remedy they're proposing. Seems like it could be any of: * Drop the 30% fee * Drop the 30% fee for apps the compete directly with Apple apps. * Allow users to install other app stores.

Microsoft is an applicable precedent here - when it was found that they had breached competition law in using bundling with Windows as a way to gain unfair market dominance for Internet Explorer, the remedy was to require that Microsoft offer users a means to select and download competing browsers on first use. The Commission can then fine them a significant amount if they fail to comply with the decision.

Of the options you've suggested, the second seems most likely.

One potential solution that may also work is instead of not taking the 30% fee, to allow Spotify and others to take payment through another channel (e.g. by bouncing users to a web-based payment gateway) - the enforcement there just becomes an injunction to not enforce the app review rules that prevent affected apps from using third-party payment providers in addition to or as an alternative to payment through the App Store.

The difficulty will be where they draw the line. A lot of third party services compete with built-in apps/OS features: for instance, Dropbox/iCloud Storage, Notes/Evernote, Office 365/Google Docs/iWork. The difference between Apple Music and Spotify (and presumably also Tidal and Deezer etc.) is really clear, but quite where you divide up these markets is a real tough issue in EU competition law. An Apple Music user could very easily be a Spotify user and vice versa, but not every iCloud user would necessarily be a Dropbox user.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#172
post #145

So Apple's ecosystem does two things: 1. it gatekeeps what's in the App Store. This is of course controversial but is a net positive for consumers (IMHO); and 2. It provides a convenient payments infrastructure. I certainly hope no government forces Apple to allow third-party App stores. Just look at what a mess this is on the PC where there are a million launchers (eg Steam, Epic, Ubisoft, Rockstar) and nearly all o…

Apple could just stop offering own apps. Utility companies are often regulated similarly - in many countries you can be either an energy producer or grid, not both.

Why do people compare luxury phone products to utilities lol. Do people honestly believe access to electricity and to iPhones are in any way comparable?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#173
post #132
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

So then if Apple Music internally pays 30% to App Store, we're all good by this definition.

That's the same as "The cocaine was in my left pocket your honor. See I have nothing in my right pocket :)"

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#174
post #132
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

So then if Apple Music internally pays 30% to App Store, we're all good by this definition.

That’s good for internal bookkeeping but it’s not enough to prevent the unfair advantage.

Take this example: Apple Music “pays” 30% to parent Apple Corp. That 30% payment cuts into Music’s revenue and now they’re operating at a 25% loss.

However, that rough calculation still allows parent Apple Corp to consider Music to be profitable, since it’s a net profit for Apple Corp. It’s happy to take the 25% “loss” in the music division because it’s just a paper loss. In cash terms, the Music division increases Apple Corps profit.

The only real way for this division to be fair is to spin Apple Music off into its own company that is not owned by Apple Corp.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#175
post #145

So Apple's ecosystem does two things: 1. it gatekeeps what's in the App Store. This is of course controversial but is a net positive for consumers (IMHO); and 2. It provides a convenient payments infrastructure. I certainly hope no government forces Apple to allow third-party App stores. Just look at what a mess this is on the PC where there are a million launchers (eg Steam, Epic, Ubisoft, Rockstar) and nearly all o…

Dude you can buy same game Cyberpunk on at least 3 different stores, what is wrong in the fact you have a choice?

Sure you have some bad examples with some of EA games or other exclusives but only a retard would say "I wish only Steam existed because I love Valve screwing me so everyone should learn to love it")

I don't blame Epic or EA either, why should they pay Valve a 30% tax when they can build a store and not throw money away. But I am against exclusives, EA or Epic should put their shit in all stores but on their own stores they could make things cheaper or offer other benefits.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#178
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then if Apple Music internally pays 30% to App Store, we're all good by this definition.

I am sure they are doing that already. And I don't think that's the law works.

It's often how law works. For example companies often create subsidiaries in order to limit liability of the parent company.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#179
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Their platform, their rules" – there are many people who say this, especially on HN.

Because they're all trying to build platforms, probably

>> Because they're all trying to build platforms, probably

Or not building products which collide with platforms.

As a general rule, if you have to use offensive lawsuits you are not smart enough to do it cleanly.

This is true in business and everywhere else

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple could just stop offering own apps. Utility companies are often regulated similarly - in many countries you can be either an energy producer or grid, not both.

Why do people compare luxury phone products to utilities lol. Do people honestly believe access to electricity and to iPhones are in any way comparable?

Because sometimes you have no choice then build a mobile app and you have to build it for what your customers use, I can't ask my customers to switch to some Linux phone or PC because I have the choice to build only Linux stuff.

From the POV of users I would like to see soemthing to make it easy to escape the lockin, like to be able to keep your movies and apps.

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