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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#141

Post by endisneigh »

gambiting wrote: post #123
endisneigh wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t you just buy another phone? I honestly don’t get it - did people not understand what they were buying when they purchased an Apple device? Did Apple ever advertise openness and reneg on that?

That's irrelevant. EU has already ruled previously that if you, as a company, reach more than 10% of EU's population(about 30M people) then no, you can no longer get away with just saying "my platform, my rules". The easiest way to think about it is - John wants to sell Mark a product that works on Mark's iphone. Currently, John cannot do that without a) getting explicit permission from Apple b) giving Apple a substa…

I see if that’s the rule then I support it. I await the end of percentage fees and hope all >10% platforms open up.

By the way you have a link to that law ?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#142

Post by konschubert »

slver wrote: post #132
zibzab wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

So then if Apple Music internally pays 30% to App Store, we're all good by this definition.

I am sure they are doing that already. And I don't think that's the law works.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#143

Post by endisneigh »

tmotwu wrote: post #119
endisneigh wrote: post #38

I personally don’t get it. iOS is a choice. Android is a choice. Neither is a choice. Back in the day, we had Palm, Blackberry, Windows Mobile among others to choose from. The decisions made by the respective companies affected adoption and now we’re left with Android and iOS for now. People compare phone choice to things like electricity and water which makes no sense. Let’s ignore Apple and Google specifically here…

I used to think it was fair. Then I learned that Apple provides exceptions only to some Apps through some sketchy backroom process. [1] Apps that don't directly compete with their products. Enough exceptions to popular apps to minimize push back. If Apple applied this tax universally, with universal acceptance, then it would be a fair "users vote with their wallet" situation. Because a majority of popular apps would…

I agree completely that there should be no exceptions.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#144

Post by georgyo »

zibzab wrote: post #22
georgyo wrote: post #5

> In response, Apple said the EU’s case was the “opposite of fair competition,” according to a statement cited by Reuters. So apple thinks that allowing any competition is the opposite of fair.

Remember their response in the ebook price fixing lawsuit? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Apple_Inc .

I was unaware of that case, interesting stuff.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#145

Post by cletus »

So Apple's ecosystem does two things:

1. it gatekeeps what's in the App Store. This is of course controversial but is a net positive for consumers (IMHO); and

2. It provides a convenient payments infrastructure.

I certainly hope no government forces Apple to allow third-party App stores. Just look at what a mess this is on the PC where there are a million launchers (eg Steam, Epic, Ubisoft, Rockstar) and nearly all of them are terrible.

(2) also has value, even for big companies. There are definitely people who buy things (including subscriptions) on Apple devices because of the ease of doing so. Remember that cut also does include credit card processing fees so that sets the floor at 1-2% not 0%. That's still a lot less than 30% of course. And I think this is particularly egregious for recurring charges like Spotify in this case.

This is why I was utterly confused by Apple's move last year to lower the cut for small developers only. This is the complete reverse of what they should do. It's clear that the winds are blowing towards government intervention here so Apple should be looking to control the narrative and deciding what compromise looks like.

If Apple had come out and said that if you process more than $10m/year then their cut was 10% of initial purchases and 5% of recurring charges do you honestly think that Spotify or Epic or anyone else would be suing them or seeking government intervention to anywhere the same degree?

Apple (and Google) are just holding on too tight to the 30% cut and they're not reading the (antitrust) room.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#146

Post by yunohn »

f6v wrote: post #70
simion314 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not about who is first, is about fair competition, If Apple is the best then they should not be afraid to compete fair, let other web browsers exist, let alternative stores exist, let free apps show a Patreon link, let apps show the user the information that they have the choice to buy outside the store (defend this please, this information can harm the user somehow or it harms the pockets of some rich guy)

I don’t think EU cares about fair competition, rather being petty about not having their own FAANG.

You know what? The funny thing is that all of FAANG has their international HQs in the EU (Dublin, Ireland) for tax evasion purposes. I’d argue they are more reliant on the EU then.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#147

Post by simion314 »

endisneigh wrote: post #104
kryptiskt wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Apple benefiting from selling in the EU? If they want to benefit from Europe, they got to obey the rules.

I agree completely, but for now they are following the rules. I’ll be happy to see the EU ban percentage based fees and make all platforms open.

Is not about the percentage, are you aware that you can't even mention you can buy a subscription from the website in the iOS application? Apple does not allow alternative app stores and is actively blocking you to inform of alternative methods of payment.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#148

Post by agust »

finiteseries wrote: post #117
speedgoose wrote: post #11

I wish one of the outcome would be to allow better web browsers than Safari on iOS.

Web ( Chrome ) developers often go on and on about this, but I have yet to hear a single layman user complain about their iOS version of Chrome missing the ability to have the random news websites they’ve followed from Facebook send them native notifications, take up the entire viewport, or be “installed” to their home screen.

Sure. Users don't even know it would be possible, and don't care about the tech anyway. What they care about however is how much they pay for apps, how much they pay for in-app purchases, and being able to switch freely from one platform to another.

Well, Apple's behaviour is impacting all this by forcing companies to develop native apps instead of web apps. Web apps (could) work anywhere, and cost a fraction of the cost of native apps.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#149

Post by cblconfederate »

piokoch wrote: post #47
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

I think argument about 30% is not that good. There is a number of services that Apple provides like software distribution, updates distribution, reviews (even though they don't benefit software creator directly, they build trust in the platform and attract more users), invoicing, regardless on the location (this one is really big - getting a single invoice from Apple instead of dealing with potentially thousands of d…

Apple doesnt need to charge any fee (like how macs and pcs never charged a fee to install apps), they get enough benefits from the millions of apps that enrich their platforms, that they otherwise wouldn't ever build themselves.

This whole perverse 'ecosystem' exists because of the skewed oligopoly dynamics of mobile phones.

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