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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#131

Post by Someone »

zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

I disagree. It’s not that Apple wants 30%, it’s that they get away with it.

For most companies, such a demand would be fine, legally (suicidal, but fine. Companies are free to make stupid decisions)

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#132

Post by slver »

zibzab wrote: post #6
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

So then if Apple Music internally pays 30% to App Store, we're all good by this definition.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#133

Post by solarkraft »

simion314 wrote: post #19
sebmellen wrote: post #7

Maybe I’m too cynical, but how will Apple get out of this? What’s the trick they’ll use this time? After all, this is only a “preliminary view.”

They cut the 30% tax down in some cases(I am still waiting for the fanboys to admit that this would never had happened if not for the large number of investigations running). Next will probably give to EU guys a convoluted way to unlock you phone but will shame you for it, probably put a watermark on a screen that you are a communist or pedo if you use the unlock device feature. Apple needs a Microsoft moment, a mome…

> Next will probably give to EU guys a convoluted way to unlock you phone

This is the end game. Jailbreaking should be a supported feature. What they'll actually do is most likely expanding features for side-loading with enterprise certificates, improving solutions like Alt Store.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#134

Post by simion314 »

f6v wrote: post #94
mrtksn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes That's not a problem, there's no inartistic correct amount to make for enabling or providing value. For 30 years now, software makes much more than that as numerous industries no longer employ people but software. The problem is, when you own the platform and you start competing on that platform you have an advantage that can be misused. For App…

> The problem is, when you own the platform and you start competing on that platform you have an advantage that can be misused. Except every platform ever built is there to get an unfair advantage. That’s the endgame for all the companies. Why would you build a platform otherwise? There’s a perpetual growth expectation after all.

You can make a platform because you want to sell it. You lock your platform because you don't want someone with a better browser or OS to compete with your lower quality products.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#135

Post by endisneigh »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #129
endisneigh wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does apple’s decisions affect non iOS users?

Most businesses must have mobile apps of some kind, and must support the two biggest options, iPhone and Android. So even if you don't own an iPhone, as a business owner there's a good chance you must make an iPhone app. Also, the entire web has to maintain Safari compatibility because iOS devices can only browse via Safari's engine. Ironically, this is the only thing protecting us from a complete Chrome monopoly...…

Most businesses don’t need mobile app - the entire basis of your argument is based off a false premise.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#136

Post by megatron4537 »

simonh wrote: post #32
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

It's 30% for the first year of subscriptions and 15% thereafter. According to Apple in 2019 Spotify didn't actually pay 30% on any of it's subscriptions at that time, and only paid the 15% on 0.5% of the App's users. The rest are ad supported and Apple gets 0% of the ad revenue. So for every Spotify app user Apple get's a 15% fee for, there are 199 Spotify app users Apple is distributing the App to for which they get…

Is this 30%-15% only for Spotify subscribers that paid through Apple Pay or is this for all Spotify subscribers that use the iOS app?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#137

Post by swongel »

endisneigh wrote: post #69
dannyw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any percentage is accessible, Spotify just can't be forced to use it. Don't wanna use Spotify's own billing system? Don't use Spotify, there's Apple music. Voila. Competition.

Spotify doesn’t have to be available on Apple devices at all. The competition you’re describing already exists no? There’s a contradiction in these arguments. Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices, in which case the fee is a cost of doing business that ultimately benefits them, or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. It’s the same thing with the food delivery apps and ot…

So Apple is forcing its customers to bundle their phone with their billing platform.

Which should be illegal (as we democratically decided to have these laws), having no choice in services is not a feature it's an additional price to pay for the product and customers legally didn't agree to that simply by buying a commodity phone (no contract, no consideration whatsoever for this additional price).

> People should just leave if they don’t like the rules. This is correct, Apple should just get out if they don't like the anti-trust rules of our market.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#138

Post by danielscrubs »

dustinmoris wrote: post #16
zibzab wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

I agree with this principle but in this specific case it’s not true because Apple started their music business long before the iPhone and Spotify existed. In fact they started with the iPod and their music business with the iPod is what lead them to invent the iPhone and the AppStore. It’s rich from other music businesses like Spotify to want to benefit from all of the R&D and innovation cost from Apple and the marke…

When they started have no bearing. It’s using their power in one market to strongarm others in another. It’s not about what is fair, it’s about making sure the market is healthy.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#139

Post by Cthulhu_ »

slver wrote: post #132
zibzab wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should add, the ruling is not really about the validity of the 30% fee. What EU seems to argue is this: 1. Apple is in phone business, Spotify music. So far so good... 2. Then apple wants to get into the music business too. Now they have an unfair advantage since Spotify must pay 30% to apple while apple music "pays" 0%. So apple use their dominance in one area (phones) to get an advantage in a totally different area…

So then if Apple Music internally pays 30% to App Store, we're all good by this definition.

In theory and superficially that makes sense, but they are the same company so it wouldn't make a difference in the end. It's not like Spotify can pay itself that 30%.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#140

Post by simion314 »

slver wrote: post #130
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

The App Store, iOS and Apple's hardware are all Apple's infrastructure.

something is missing here, maybe quote the thing you replied to or be more clear.

Since is not clear, I might be off topic, Apple can not sell it's stuff in EU or can comply with the laws , it is fun when "our stuff, our rules, use something else if you don't like it" is applied to Apple.

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