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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#91

Post by swiley »

endisneigh wrote: post #52
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #46

Since this is an EU case, that should mean it'll actually do something, and won't take a decade and a half to conclude. The penalty won't be the big deal here, it'll be what Apple is prohibited from doing. And it'll be really exciting if the precedent set blows back on the entire 30%-rent-seeking-platform-industry.

What percentage is acceptable to you? Perhaps all percentage based transactions are rent seeking and should be made illegal. I’m on board.

I don't care if Apple takes 90% I'm just tired of them telling people what software they're allowed to run. It makes everyone miserable even if they don't use the iPhone.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#92

Post by endisneigh »

itg wrote: post #86
endisneigh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify doesn’t have to be available on Apple devices at all. The competition you’re describing already exists no? There’s a contradiction in these arguments. Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices, in which case the fee is a cost of doing business that ultimately benefits them, or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. It’s the same thing with the food delivery apps and ot…

Apple devices and services don't have to be available in Europe at all. Either Apple benefits from Europe, in which case they need to follow European rules and regulations, or they don't benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the EU.

I agree completely. I look forward to seeing rules in the EU that ban percentage based fees and make all platforms open.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#93

Post by kryptiskt »

endisneigh wrote: post #66
dannyw wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any percentage is acceptable if Spotify isn't forced to pay it. Any percentage is also acceptable if Apple wasn't directly competing with Spotify.

Isn’t Spotify benefiting from Apple devices? If not, then they can simply not be on Apple devices right? If they are benefiting, then is it unacceptable for them to pay for the benefit?

Is Apple benefiting from selling in the EU? If they want to benefit from Europe, they got to obey the rules.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#94

Post by f6v »

mrtksn wrote: post #62
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

>company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes That's not a problem, there's no inartistic correct amount to make for enabling or providing value. For 30 years now, software makes much more than that as numerous industries no longer employ people but software. The problem is, when you own the platform and you start competing on that platform you have an advantage that can be misused. For App…

> The problem is, when you own the platform and you start competing on that platform you have an advantage that can be misused.

Except every platform ever built is there to get an unfair advantage. That’s the endgame for all the companies. Why would you build a platform otherwise? There’s a perpetual growth expectation after all.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#95

Post by hrktb »

piokoch wrote: post #47
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

I think argument about 30% is not that good. There is a number of services that Apple provides like software distribution, updates distribution, reviews (even though they don't benefit software creator directly, they build trust in the platform and attract more users), invoicing, regardless on the location (this one is really big - getting a single invoice from Apple instead of dealing with potentially thousands of d…

Said like that, your arguments sounds like “I had a friend in another business who was abused way harder, we should give Apple a break for abusing only a little”

I think we’d agree reducing/eliminating undue middle-men fees should be a goal whatever the amount.

In particular Spotify for instance gets little benefit from having Apple as a middlemen, while smaller players would sure appreciate the convenience. The argument would be to have a choice to rely or not on what Apple provides.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#96

Post by endisneigh »

ChrisRR wrote: post #88
endisneigh wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage is acceptable to you? Perhaps all percentage based transactions are rent seeking and should be made illegal. I’m on board.

It's not so much the percentage, as the ability to operate outside of the app store if you so wish

Can’t you just buy another phone? I honestly don’t get it - did people not understand what they were buying when they purchased an Apple device?

Did Apple ever advertise openness and reneg on that?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#97

Post by dannyw »

endisneigh wrote: post #69
dannyw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any percentage is accessible, Spotify just can't be forced to use it. Don't wanna use Spotify's own billing system? Don't use Spotify, there's Apple music. Voila. Competition.

Spotify doesn’t have to be available on Apple devices at all. The competition you’re describing already exists no? There’s a contradiction in these arguments. Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices, in which case the fee is a cost of doing business that ultimately benefits them, or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. It’s the same thing with the food delivery apps and ot…

Actually, yes, Spotify does have to be available on iOS devices if Spotify chooses to. Apple will be slapped with aggressive enforcement action if they pull something like that.

Apple isn't a deity.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#98

Post by anoncake »

thayne wrote: post #53
simonh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 30% for the first year of subscriptions and 15% thereafter. According to Apple in 2019 Spotify didn't actually pay 30% on any of it's subscriptions at that time, and only paid the 15% on 0.5% of the App's users. The rest are ad supported and Apple gets 0% of the ad revenue. So for every Spotify app user Apple get's a 15% fee for, there are 199 Spotify app users Apple is distributing the App to for which they get…

But I think the key here, and probably a big reason Spotify went after Apple and not Google, is that on iOS you have to use Apple's app store. You can't distribute your app using your own infrastructure, or an alternative app store even if you want to.

While the situation is better on Android, not using the Play Store isn't a real option in most cases. Alternative stores cannot provide auto updates.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#99

Post by [deleted] »

endisneigh wrote: post #69
dannyw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any percentage is accessible, Spotify just can't be forced to use it. Don't wanna use Spotify's own billing system? Don't use Spotify, there's Apple music. Voila. Competition.

Spotify doesn’t have to be available on Apple devices at all. The competition you’re describing already exists no? There’s a contradiction in these arguments. Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices, in which case the fee is a cost of doing business that ultimately benefits them, or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. It’s the same thing with the food delivery apps and ot…

[deleted]

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#100

Post by endisneigh »

dannyw wrote: post #97
endisneigh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify doesn’t have to be available on Apple devices at all. The competition you’re describing already exists no? There’s a contradiction in these arguments. Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices, in which case the fee is a cost of doing business that ultimately benefits them, or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform. It’s the same thing with the food delivery apps and ot…

Actually, yes, Spotify does have to be available on iOS devices if Spotify chooses to. Apple will be slapped with aggressive enforcement action if they pull something like that. Apple isn't a deity.

What? According to what rule is Spotify entitled a presence on Apple devices?
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