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EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

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Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#51

Post by Mindwipe »

beforeolives wrote: post #13
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

> Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! 1. No, this is limited to the AppStore, those businesses can operate elsewhere. 2. What's the alternative? How is any business entitled to free or low-fee access to a platform that Apple built and maintain?

> How is any business entitled to free or low-fee access to a platform that Apple built and maintain?

Because we have a regulatory system designed to ensure that happens as capitalism doesn't really function if you don't.

Also "platform" is bullshit. By "platform" we mean "Apple used it's control of the hardware to force control of all software on an unprecedented level so they could rent seek." There is no right to a "platform" here. Apple run an app store. People should be free to chose to use it or not, but they're not because Apple abuse their position as hardware manufacturer. That isn't a platform.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#52

Post by endisneigh »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #46

Since this is an EU case, that should mean it'll actually do something, and won't take a decade and a half to conclude. The penalty won't be the big deal here, it'll be what Apple is prohibited from doing. And it'll be really exciting if the precedent set blows back on the entire 30%-rent-seeking-platform-industry.

What percentage is acceptable to you? Perhaps all percentage based transactions are rent seeking and should be made illegal. I’m on board.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#53

Post by thayne »

simonh wrote: post #32
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

It's 30% for the first year of subscriptions and 15% thereafter. According to Apple in 2019 Spotify didn't actually pay 30% on any of it's subscriptions at that time, and only paid the 15% on 0.5% of the App's users. The rest are ad supported and Apple gets 0% of the ad revenue. So for every Spotify app user Apple get's a 15% fee for, there are 199 Spotify app users Apple is distributing the App to for which they get…

But I think the key here, and probably a big reason Spotify went after Apple and not Google, is that on iOS you have to use Apple's app store. You can't distribute your app using your own infrastructure, or an alternative app store even if you want to.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#54

Post by lwhi »

dustinmoris wrote: post #34
teknopaul wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

starting first does not mean you are not abusing your monopoly. Another way of looking at this is that a 30% margin is preventing a lot of businesses from happening until Apple do it. The 30% is less of a concern that the fact that they can shut you down on a whim.

It’s hardly abuse if Apple was the first to invent an iPod and iTunes and the online music business and then evolved their own products around their own offerings. They decided to let others into their own platform to enrich it, not to crush them. Spotify entered knowing that Apple already had a competing product. Why did they enter and start competing if they thought it was an unfair competition from the start? I fi…

Apple are in the wrong here.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#55

Post by Mindwipe »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #46

Since this is an EU case, that should mean it'll actually do something, and won't take a decade and a half to conclude. The penalty won't be the big deal here, it'll be what Apple is prohibited from doing. And it'll be really exciting if the precedent set blows back on the entire 30%-rent-seeking-platform-industry.

I'm hopeful Apple might be forced to divest the App Store into a separate company entirely tbh.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#56

Post by dannyw »

endisneigh wrote: post #45
zibzab wrote: post #2

Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).

Is the issue the percentage or skimming off the top? What percentage is acceptable? How did you come up with it? You might as well say that all percentage based transactions should be illegal.

Any percentage is acceptable if Spotify isn't forced to pay it. Any percentage is also acceptable if Apple wasn't directly competing with Spotify.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#57

Post by sgift »

throw14082020 wrote: post #10

The difference between EU and Apple is EU makes laws, and Apple makes guidelines. Here are my definitions: Guidelines: Do not break these. If you break these, your business will be crushed, the app removed for the app store. Law: Break them when they make financial sense. For large corporations, it makes sense to break relevant laws. e.g. GDPR. In replying to zibzabs comment/ Unpopular opinion: Yes, they still did it…

All this says is that the ramifications for breaking these laws are not big enough. I fully agree. More laws should state a percentage of global turnover as fine. Also, start sending managers to prison for this and you will see changes pretty fast.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#58

Post by the-dude »

Mindwipe wrote: post #55
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #46

Since this is an EU case, that should mean it'll actually do something, and won't take a decade and a half to conclude. The penalty won't be the big deal here, it'll be what Apple is prohibited from doing. And it'll be really exciting if the precedent set blows back on the entire 30%-rent-seeking-platform-industry.

I'm hopeful Apple might be forced to divest the App Store into a separate company entirely tbh.

I wonder if they do that, if they will be pressured into allowing competing stores too. Seems inevitable.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#59

Post by grezql »

5 months after I applied for 15% app store fee reduction, I still havent got it. First they said I needed the account owner to submit a form. Then when account owner submitted it, they ignored me until I emailed them. When I emailed they kept forwarding me to different departments. At last they said they fixed it but I still see 30% cut off my sales.

Something tells me if it had been the other way, a fee increase to 45%, this would be implemented overnight with no forms, no questions asked.

disgrace

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#60

Post by kryptiskt »

mnd999 wrote: post #9

It's not clear to me from the article what remedy they're proposing. Seems like it could be any of: * Drop the 30% fee * Drop the 30% fee for apps the compete directly with Apple apps. * Allow users to install other app stores.

I presume Apple could get out of the music business too. From a profit standpoint that would be the best alternative for them, there's no real money in it. That is, if the EU would let them get away with just doing that.
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