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Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#291

Post by zepto »

LegitShady wrote: post #272
zepto wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afraid? Pretty much everything we do affects us. I’d say choice of jobs and schools has had a giant effect on me, much of it not what I would choose. Make a careful, informed decision. But there is no need to be ‘afraid’.

Not all change is equal, not all change is equally controlled. Pretending it is because change occurs sabotages your ability to categorize, analyze, and ultimately judge change. Most people are not qualified to and cannot make careful informed decisions about the way drugs affect you.

> Pretending it is because change occurs sabotages your ability to categorize, analyze, and ultimately judge change.

Who is pretending this?

> Most people are not qualified to and cannot make careful informed decisions about the way drugs affect you.

Who is qualified in your opinion?

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#292

Post by xkcd-sucks »

internetslave wrote: post #8
simonswords82 wrote: post #7

I have a friend who has experienced magic mushrooms recreationally about half a dozen times in her 20s. After each trip she reported feeling clear headed and more mindful - she described it as though her mind's harddrive had been defragmented. Fast forward 10 years and that same friend felt low during lockdown over the past 12 months. After reading up online she decided to try microdosing mushrooms rather than the ma…

I know a lot of people whose minds were ruined by psychedelics. It’s something you will see when you spend time in those communities. It doesn’t happen to everyone, but it’s common.

I know a bunch of people who went totally nuts with the aid of drugs; but I know even more people that never touched any drugs who went off the deep end with the aid of media, romantic relationships, religion, politics, etc.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#293

Post by lostmsu »

cyberlab wrote: post #257
lostmsu wrote: post #70

Judging by studies on long term use of other mind-altering drugs, I would expect psilocybin to similarly cause decline in cognitive abilities after prolonged use. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), I could not find studies on effect of specifically psilocybin on cognitive abilities. And please, don't bring up EmoIQ and other non-reasoning related stuff. This is not what the concern is about.

If anything shrooms would be contributing to neurogenesis [0] not destroying brain cells. Opposite to alcohol which is well known to destroy brain cells. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenesis

I see you share the sentiment. Well,

> Injection of PSOP, 25I-NBMeO or ketanserin resulted in significant dose-dependent decreases in number of newborn neurons in hippocampus

> At the low doses of PSOP that enhanced extinction, neurogenesis was not decreased, but rather tended toward an increase

(in mice) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23727882/

The way I read it large doses definitely decrease neurogenesis and low doses look like they slightly increase, but the authors are uncertain.

That putting aside that neurogenesis changes caused by the substance might be affecting the actual intelligence either way.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#294

Post by aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA »

giantg2 wrote: post #289
vmception wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> F16.5 hallucinogens (LSD and others)[citation needed] no studies found.

I'm not sure what this is responding to. The prior comments were asking about details around potential permanent psychiatric issues. There's some stuff in here about psychosis turning into schizophrenia, etc. It's rare, but we also can't dismiss it.

Popping the stack a few frames, this particular thread is about “people whose minds were ruined by psychedelics.”

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#295

Post by vermilingua »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #186
vermilingua wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any psychadelics (and I think cannabis as well, but much more rarely) can cause a psychotic break, which can’t always be recovered from. It seems to be more prevalent if there is a family history of psychosis. No source, just anecdata, the circles I run in.

I would say “trigger” a psychotic break rather than cause. Other possible triggers include going away to college, and the break-up of a relationship.

Good point, and an important distinction.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#296

Post by BelmundoRegal »

LegitShady wrote: post #271
BelmundoRegal wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I calculate a 99.99% chance you have never tried any such substance and therefore know not what you're talking about. The "long term personality changes" are for the vast majority transformational in a positive way, as in doing away with pathological stuff forever. I encourage you to take a moment to get acquainted with what is being done clinically ( which to be honest is not what I was referring to ) ; Matthew John…

> I calculate a 99.99% chance you have never tried any such substance and therefore know not what you're talking about. The "long term personality changes" are for the vast majority transformational in a positive way, as in doing away with pathological stuff forever. You've calculated statistics for things you've made up. >Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics | Lex Fridman Podcast #145 Please please don't quote podcasts as…

I did put a rough number on it but I must be pretty close. I reckon it might sound a bit rude which It wasn't intended to be.

As for the podcast, I was proposing it as a gateway into this field, not as a source to substantiate my general point although it does. My point is otherwise based on first hand experience and a large body of anecdotal evidence. You summarily dismissed one of the most promising array of treatments for people going through some rough stuff without any evidence or submitting any source yourself.

You're right about the poor communication bit though and thank you. Here's a 3:57 minute cut-off [0] from that same podcast, dealing specifically with psylocibin interventions.

> Please please don't quote podcasts as research

Well, this is a podcast with a cutting edge researcher ... I think it's fair game, and I didn't call it research.

I can assure you the general idea we're discussing is worth some of your attention, especially if you or someone you know is dealing with just about any type of serious personal issue.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJpX5y5w8tQ

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#297

Post by kar5pt »

wil421 wrote: post #243
varispeed wrote: post #197

I think the people behind drug prohibition need reckoning. They have caused untold suffering, especially by preventing people from accessing medication they needed. There is no justification for drug prohibition to continue. If anyone thinks otherwise, then it only means they have not educated themselves enough about the topic, they profit from the current status quo or simply they take pleasure in causing suffering…

Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting. Possession in a small amount should be decriminalized using a stick (drunk tank for a couple days) or carrot (state run rehab or classes) method. Stop the prosecutions and jailing of the users. Mandate a class or whatever like they do for DUIs and provide a state run place to ween them off. Combined with a safe place to do drugs and sa…

The problem with this is it's biased against poor people. Rich addicts can afford to only be users, but poor addicts are the ones that need to deal to support their habit. So if you jail dealers, you're disproportionately jailing poor people.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#298

Post by kar5pt »

bunfunton wrote: post #252
wil421 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting. Possession in a small amount should be decriminalized using a stick (drunk tank for a couple days) or carrot (state run rehab or classes) method. Stop the prosecutions and jailing of the users. Mandate a class or whatever like they do for DUIs and provide a state run place to ween them off. Combined with a safe place to do drugs and sa…

I mean marijuana is more addicting to me than cocaine so....

I'm guessing that's because you don't do cocaine.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#299

Post by BelmundoRegal »

randomopining wrote: post #280
BelmundoRegal wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also ; MDMA Solo ; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25974701 “The brain is not a blind, reactive machine, but a complex, sensitive biocomputer that we can program. And if we don't take the responsibility for programming it, then it will be programmed unwittingly by accident or by the social environment.”

Is it worth it solo?

> Meditation is the ultimate key though, putting in the hard work and then using shrooms sparingly to cash in on that.

First, that ^ is gold.

Second, I've only had a few experiences with it (MDMA), but as far as I'm concerned, it's a waste doing it with other people versus by yourself. It's cool with people too, but off by an order of magnitude from what you can cash out solo, especially if you're someone who makes that ^ kind of comment. To be clear, I haven't actually done any since I found this document here a few months ago. But I have some shit that needs to be dealt with at the kernel level and I'm going to handle that sooner rather than later.

Speaking to your other comment ^ I think one could also come to meditation from that gate. Someone not into any of this could realize over night that there are all these other layers of reality that are accessible to them and pursue the path inward afterwards. Or realize they are dealing with extra and unnecessary layers of reality, depending on their specific case and how you want to look at it.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#300

Post by kar5pt »

scottLobster wrote: post #258
fuzzer37 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting. Maybe for you, but why should you be the arbiter of what other people do? Make it legal and tax substances to the point that the revenue offsets the potential negatives.

Because those people don't live in a vacuum. I know I'm just one case, but as someone who's mother got addicted to legally prescribed Fentanyl as well as other opioids as a result of her cancer treatments, and to had serve as caregiver for said mother when said drugs sent her into irrational rages and occasionally made her suicidal (she later admitted to not remembering multiple months of time from the years she was…

Except a hundred years of experience has shown us that "regulating drugs until they're no longer in existence" is not possible. What actually happens is drugs become more expensive and more dangerous. You bring up legally prescribed opioids, but those are drugs that people take because they're encouraged to do so by a doctor. Your mother most likely wouldn't have taken Fentanyl if it was just legalized, but not prescribed to her. Most people who would take legalized drugs will also take them when they're illegal.
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