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Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#241

Post by Leparamour »

bigfudge wrote: post #207
Leparamour wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but rather that they have different priorities than you and that you're narrowminded and judgemental. Having been loosely affiliated with the Goa/Psytrance scene, I too, have met some individuals who seemed to have "fried" their brains. If those "different priorities", how you call it, also include being almost dysfunctional and therefore dependent on constant external support, paranoid and frequently incoherent the…

The thing is, it's not at all clear this was caused by psychedelics, so much as psychedelics and the lifestyle that goes with it shape the sort of dysfunction we observe. If they had been in the midwestern USA would they also be dysfunctional but taking prescription painkillers? Mental health problems are common, and confirmation bias is real. There is also the danger of reverse causation — and this may apply to cann…

>so much as psychedelics and the lifestyle that goes with it shape the sort of dysfunction we observe.

I wondered about this myself.

I think it is hard to pinpoint exactly since festival-goers often also consume a mix of different substances (the infamous "candy flipping") including alcohol instead of just straight mushrooms or LSD.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#242

Post by varispeed »

rincebrain wrote: post #225
varispeed wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is crazy. It's like cart manufacturers lobbied government that anyone who want to buy a car would first have to use a horse and a cart and only be allowed to buy a car if the cart and a horse causes significant problem. Am I the only one seeing corruption here?

If your attempted argument is "X helps people who are not helped by other existing treatments", then limiting your selection criteria to those who have tried several existing treatments and not found success seems to follow logically. (Though the study's construction seems to fail at that argument, since the claim is that all patients, both those given the psilocybin and those given the SSRI, improved markedly.)

When I wrote that, I had in mind a situation in my country that you can be eligible for private medical cannabis prescription if you try at least two other treatments and you find them ineffective. On the surface it doesn't sound too sinister, but for example, when it comes to chronic pain the drugs that are being given are simply nasty. I still have nightmares about the side effects that I experienced (vivid hallucinations, suicidal thoughts, derealization and more). Given how ubiquitous cannabis is, people with various problems often find, including chronic pain, that it helps massively and unfortunately they cannot bypass going through hell just to get prescription for what helps. They cannot even suggest that they look for medicinal cannabis as they still may be branded as drug seekers and be denied treatment altogether.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#243

Post by wil421 »

varispeed wrote: post #197

I think the people behind drug prohibition need reckoning. They have caused untold suffering, especially by preventing people from accessing medication they needed. There is no justification for drug prohibition to continue. If anyone thinks otherwise, then it only means they have not educated themselves enough about the topic, they profit from the current status quo or simply they take pleasure in causing suffering…

Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting.

Possession in a small amount should be decriminalized using a stick (drunk tank for a couple days) or carrot (state run rehab or classes) method.

Stop the prosecutions and jailing of the users. Mandate a class or whatever like they do for DUIs and provide a state run place to ween them off. Combined with a safe place to do drugs and safe needles.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#244

Post by t1mmen »

high_priest wrote: post #210
philshem wrote: post #12

Due to recent decriminalizations and booming medical research, there are also some publicly traded companies one can invest in: https://psychedelicinvest.com/index/ https://www.horizonsetfs.com/etf/psyk (disclaimer: I own shares in many of these companies)

In a gist, how would one go about making such investment? Should I talk to a pro broker?

Most of the tickers are traded on Canadian exchanges (NEO, TSX.V, CSE). If you’re in the US, I believe Interactive Brokers (and others) will let you buy stocks at these exchanges. You can do all this self-directed, no need to involve a processional.

If your current broker doesn’t allow Canadian venture/OTC stocks, $CMPS is the only ticker traded on NASDAQ so far. $MMED is expected to uplist to NASDAQ in the near future.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#245

Post by CabSauce »

philshem wrote: post #12

Due to recent decriminalizations and booming medical research, there are also some publicly traded companies one can invest in: https://psychedelicinvest.com/index/ https://www.horizonsetfs.com/etf/psyk (disclaimer: I own shares in many of these companies)

Just mild warning for folks considering this. These companies are highly speculative. (They're also mostly down 20-30% in the last couple months.)

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#246

Post by quchen »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #170
alexf95 wrote: post #52

I feel like there will also people that have way too many prejudices towards these kinds of "drugs" because that's simply how we learned it. "Don't take drugs kids". These studies are very helpful especially when shared over general media, but the consumption has to be supervised and controlled to not have overdoses and ruin the whole reputation again. It should be treated like any other anti-depressant, since they a…

> I feel like there will also people that have way too many prejudices towards these kinds of "drugs" because that's simply how we learned it. "Don't take drugs kids". At least on Internet forums, the trend seems to be the opposite. Many commenters are very pro-psychedelic but anti-medication these days. It’s important to remember that psilocybin may be promising, but it’s still not a great long-term treatment option…

> excessive and sustained consumption of psychedelics seems to lead people into increasingly weird thoughts

We have lots of _clinical_ evidence even that that’s the case for a lot of medication, which is why we don’t usually administer excessively and sustained, but carefully and controlled.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#247

Post by rincebrain »

varispeed wrote: post #242
rincebrain wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your attempted argument is "X helps people who are not helped by other existing treatments", then limiting your selection criteria to those who have tried several existing treatments and not found success seems to follow logically. (Though the study's construction seems to fail at that argument, since the claim is that all patients, both those given the psilocybin and those given the SSRI, improved markedly.)

When I wrote that, I had in mind a situation in my country that you can be eligible for private medical cannabis prescription if you try at least two other treatments and you find them ineffective. On the surface it doesn't sound too sinister, but for example, when it comes to chronic pain the drugs that are being given are simply nasty. I still have nightmares about the side effects that I experienced (vivid halluci…

I can understand the basis for those requirements in general (e.g. for antidepressants, doctors generally won't start you with an MAOI or a TCA, they'll start you with an SSRI or SNRI or similar, then try another one if that doesn't work, then maybe resort to TCAs if a couple of those don't work, then maybe try an MAOI if a couple of _those_ don't work), though I would agree that having a hard requirement of trying several other drugs first with the toxicity profile of cannabis seems...overly harsh at best. (Especially labeling people drug seekers for it - though they might be gun-shy after the fun with opioids and worried about finding a new epidemic of cannabis addicts, which seems...unlikely.)

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#248

Post by fuzzer37 »

wil421 wrote: post #243
varispeed wrote: post #197

I think the people behind drug prohibition need reckoning. They have caused untold suffering, especially by preventing people from accessing medication they needed. There is no justification for drug prohibition to continue. If anyone thinks otherwise, then it only means they have not educated themselves enough about the topic, they profit from the current status quo or simply they take pleasure in causing suffering…

Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting. Possession in a small amount should be decriminalized using a stick (drunk tank for a couple days) or carrot (state run rehab or classes) method. Stop the prosecutions and jailing of the users. Mandate a class or whatever like they do for DUIs and provide a state run place to ween them off. Combined with a safe place to do drugs and sa…

> Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting.

Maybe for you, but why should you be the arbiter of what other people do? Make it legal and tax substances to the point that the revenue offsets the potential negatives.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#249

Post by philshem »

CabSauce wrote: post #245
philshem wrote: post #12

Due to recent decriminalizations and booming medical research, there are also some publicly traded companies one can invest in: https://psychedelicinvest.com/index/ https://www.horizonsetfs.com/etf/psyk (disclaimer: I own shares in many of these companies)

Just mild warning for folks considering this. These companies are highly speculative. (They're also mostly down 20-30% in the last couple months.)

Indeed, some companies are highly speculative. But in the ETF are also J&J (ketamine nose spray for drug-resistant depression) and AbbVie (acquired Allergan).

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#250

Post by yeswecatan »

quchen wrote: post #235
yeswecatan wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds so amazing. I'd probably never try mushrooms though because I'm terrified of them rewiring my brain in some messed up way.

In my experience, »mushrooms rewire you« does not really do them justice: they mostly help you rewire yourself; more like changing habits (internal) rather than surgery (external). Here’s a personal example: a couple of years ago I had a very rough breakup, but over the years came to terms with it. More than 3 years later, I internally »met« my ex in a psychedelic dream-like state, both were happy with our new lives,…

Thank you for sharing. If you had a positive experience, why do you plan on not trying again? Of course I'm not advocating for doing it daily :)
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