Psilocybin 'promising' for depression • Hacker News Board

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#251

Post by varispeed » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #243

varispeed wrote: post #197

I think the people behind drug prohibition need reckoning. They have caused untold suffering, especially by preventing people from accessing medication they needed. There is no justification for drug prohibition to continue. If anyone thinks otherwise, then it only means they have not educated themselves enough about the topic, they profit from the current status quo or simply they take pleasure in causing suffering…

Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting. Possession in a small amount should be decriminalized using a stick (drunk tank for a couple days) or carrot (state run rehab or classes) method. Stop the prosecutions and jailing of the users. Mandate a class or whatever like they do for DUIs and provide a state run place to ween them off. Combined with a safe place to do drugs and sa…

> Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting.

These drugs should be legal precisely because they are so dangerous. The key is adequate regulation appropriate for the potential danger.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#252

Post by bunfunton » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #243

varispeed wrote: post #197

I think the people behind drug prohibition need reckoning. They have caused untold suffering, especially by preventing people from accessing medication they needed. There is no justification for drug prohibition to continue. If anyone thinks otherwise, then it only means they have not educated themselves enough about the topic, they profit from the current status quo or simply they take pleasure in causing suffering…

Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting. Possession in a small amount should be decriminalized using a stick (drunk tank for a couple days) or carrot (state run rehab or classes) method. Stop the prosecutions and jailing of the users. Mandate a class or whatever like they do for DUIs and provide a state run place to ween them off. Combined with a safe place to do drugs and sa…

I mean marijuana is more addicting to me than cocaine so....

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#253

Post by say_it_as_it_is » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

varispeed wrote: post #203

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of treatment resistant depression is one of the filters that narrows down the list. A subject must have tried at least two different antidepressants for a certain length of time and within the last few years, in addition to therapy. So, someone who has taken antidepressants for years doesn't automatically qualify.

This is crazy. It's like cart manufacturers lobbied government that anyone who want to buy a car would first have to use a horse and a cart and only be allowed to buy a car if the cart and a horse causes significant problem. Am I the only one seeing corruption here?

Studies are being designed to reduce the possibility that a patient just didn't respond well to one medication but instead shows a general lack of improvement from antidepressants. The goal is to know that the patient improved from psilocybin, specifically. One other problem with this stacked definition of treatment resistance is that doctors are going to be coerced to always try multiple antidepressants and guinea pig the hell out of patients. Doctors are going to refuse initial psilocybin treatment and only use it as a last resort because the studies are going to show that treatment resistance is necessary. Even worse will be if doctors are coerced by regulators and medical institutes to strictly follow their protocol. And this only includes doctors who agree to add psilocybin to their treatment programs. A lot of doctors will resist using it, claiming "unearned wisdom is dangerous wisdom" and so forth. The "unearned wisdom" claim is based on the indoctrinated belief that a patient must undergo many hours of therapy and slowly peel layers of experience in order to truly understand, whereas psilocybin offers a shortcut.

For these reasons and others, I believe that the vast majority of depressed people who haven't healed from traditional methods ought not pursue clinical studies as a viable pathway to psilocybin-assisted therapy.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#254

Post by xxel » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

What trial, what research? I have spent 20 years in psy festivals still have no depression even after these lockdowns and people I know are free of depression too. Even scientists I know eat acid and mushrooms so what research is needed?

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#255

Post by barbacoa » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #243

varispeed wrote: post #197

I think the people behind drug prohibition need reckoning. They have caused untold suffering, especially by preventing people from accessing medication they needed. There is no justification for drug prohibition to continue. If anyone thinks otherwise, then it only means they have not educated themselves enough about the topic, they profit from the current status quo or simply they take pleasure in causing suffering…

Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting. Possession in a small amount should be decriminalized using a stick (drunk tank for a couple days) or carrot (state run rehab or classes) method. Stop the prosecutions and jailing of the users. Mandate a class or whatever like they do for DUIs and provide a state run place to ween them off. Combined with a safe place to do drugs and sa…

>Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting.

I know 10X as many people who threw away their lives working minimum wage and minimum responsibility jobs just so that they can afford enough marijuana to make themselves happy with living without ambition.

Not that I think marijuana should be illegal but if we are going to legalize one we should be consistent and legalize everything.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#256

Post by quchen » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

yeswecatan wrote: post #250

quchen wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, »mushrooms rewire you« does not really do them justice: they mostly help you rewire yourself; more like changing habits (internal) rather than surgery (external). Here’s a personal example: a couple of years ago I had a very rough breakup, but over the years came to terms with it. More than 3 years later, I internally »met« my ex in a psychedelic dream-like state, both were happy with our new lives,…

Thank you for sharing. If you had a positive experience, why do you plan on not trying again? Of course I'm not advocating for doing it daily :)

I'm open to doing it again, but I have no particular urge to do so. I'm torn between taking it for fun (but unhappy about the lack of depth) or for reflection (which is hard to plan for and exhausting). In the end it's a very intense experience that's a bit hard to anticipate: I need to be outside with good weather, in a good short- and medium-term mood.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#257

Post by cyberlab » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

lostmsu wrote: post #70

Judging by studies on long term use of other mind-altering drugs, I would expect psilocybin to similarly cause decline in cognitive abilities after prolonged use. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), I could not find studies on effect of specifically psilocybin on cognitive abilities. And please, don't bring up EmoIQ and other non-reasoning related stuff. This is not what the concern is about.

If anything shrooms would be contributing to neurogenesis[0] not destroying brain cells. Opposite to alcohol which is well known to destroy brain cells.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenesis

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#258

Post by scottLobster » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

fuzzer37 wrote: post #248

wil421 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting. Possession in a small amount should be decriminalized using a stick (drunk tank for a couple days) or carrot (state run rehab or classes) method. Stop the prosecutions and jailing of the users. Mandate a class or whatever like they do for DUIs and provide a state run place to ween them off. Combined with a safe place to do drugs and sa…

> Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, and Fentanyl should never be legal. They are too addicting. Maybe for you, but why should you be the arbiter of what other people do? Make it legal and tax substances to the point that the revenue offsets the potential negatives.

Because those people don't live in a vacuum.

I know I'm just one case, but as someone who's mother got addicted to legally prescribed Fentanyl as well as other opioids as a result of her cancer treatments, and to had serve as caregiver for said mother when said drugs sent her into irrational rages and occasionally made her suicidal (she later admitted to not remembering multiple months of time from the years she was on it), the libertarian individual choice argument is particularly full of shit when it comes to these substances.

There are some things that the average human biology simply cannot handle. Making said substances illegal or regulating them such that they are impossible for the average person to get is perfectly rational and beneficial for society. Naturally treatment centers should be provided for those who manage to obtain them illegally as opposed to jail time, and that's the part we suck at. No rational person with purpose seeks out illegal opioids, it's a symptom of underlying issues and should be treated as such, not punished.

Psilocybin, Marijuana, Tobacco and Alcohol are completely different animals. And yes there are people who can't handle these, but the vast majority of the population is capable of doing so and/or the consequences are less severe when they are mishandled. You can't say that about opioids.

Same reason even in the US while I can own an AR-15, I cannot own a Patriot Missile Battery. One the average individual can be relatively trusted with, the other they cannot.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#259

Post by amanaplanacanal » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #76

DoreenMichele wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What causes depression during lockdown? Is it lack of exposure to sunlight? Is it lack of exercise? Is it eating more poorly? Is it people being confined to spaces that may not be that clean that they normally leave during the day, thus exposing them to more mold and germs? It isn't necessarily dystopian. It may still be a valid and genuine treatment, though I agree it would be better to understand more thoroughly wh…

What are my implicit assumptions? That locking human beings in their houses is by default a negative thing that will cause depression? That seems obvious to me. Animals don’t like being in cages.

Where do you live that you are locked in your house? I haven’t seen that where I am.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#260

Post by renewiltord » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

rmcpherson wrote: post #104

renewiltord wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this but I think society has figured out something better. It has figured out that many people can use drugs effectively and many people are worthless on drugs. So what it does is that it allows you to use as many drugs as possible when you're something like a high-income professional and sort of criminalizes drug use among working class people. Your "test" for being a safe drug user is to have a lot…

This is one of the travesties of drug enforcement and has compounded inequality in America. The imprisonment of the poor for nonviolent drug offenses continues today. That a wealthy drug user would laud this as a good outcome of drug policy is honestly flabbergasting, but perhaps shouldn’t be.

It's really quite awful, isn't it? Completely inequitable and very unfair. But if I had to choose between equal misery and unequal prosperity, I think I choose the latter each time.

I'd like for us to make psychedelics accessible to all, but since lots of people don't want that, I think I'll settle for keeping psychedelics accessible to me.