China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law • Hacker News Board

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#141

Post by tidenly » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 11:18 AM UTC

pyinstallwoes wrote: post #93

tidenly wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwanese are not Chinese though, so my point responding to OP wasn't about them. I mean people who are born & raised Chinese - they usually do want to be Chinese, even if its just in the cultural sense and not the CCP (but even then, most don't seem very vehemently opposed). Taiwans different as they've had to largely reframe the Taiwanese identity to be more about the island and its history and people who came (inc…

Many "Taiwanese" people identify as Chinese. So I can't say that what you said is correct. They view Taiwan as "the last remnant of real China" However your other points make sense. I guess the idioms and expression lack the complexity in discussing the issue. Thanks for your input, it adds color.

True, I have heard of those people. The handful of Taiwanese people I know say only older people really feel that way anymore, though my mates are all in their 20s, mostly lgbt and living in Tokyo/Taipei - so I can't claim to have an unbiased sample

One issue I constantly run into speaking to friends in English, is that we use the word "Chinese" for a lot of different ideas (even the language). I think its a bit of a semantic landmine in English for these conversations.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#142

Post by xwolfi » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 11:23 AM UTC

ladyanita22 wrote: post #6

xwolfi wrote: post #4

I m in HK and I don't know what to think. Between protestors destroying the streets like monkeys and the country punishing everyone using this as an excuse, we're well surrounded :D Hong Kong shouldn't be independent but is China the right country for us, is how I jokingly troll both extremes. End of the day nobody cares, we're still discussing who elect the mayor of the city and people are talking like we're losing…

You'd be better off in the UK.

I'm also French, so I'd rather starve in a chinese goulag than eat carrott sandwiches under the rain in London

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#143

Post by robjan » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 11:26 AM UTC

rado wrote: post #113

Critics argue the law effectively marks the end of democracy. The end of what? Outrage culture strikes again. They never had democracy.

The reason these changes happened today was that there was a very real chance that pro-democracy figures would win the election in a system which was rigged against them. This is also why essentially all of the pro-democracy candidates were arrested under the National Security Law. They were probably going to win the LegCo and would have had the power to force the Chief Executive to resign.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#144

Post by christophilus » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 11:38 AM UTC

shanghaikid wrote: post #130

christophilus wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been there and looked with my own eyes. The PRC is a menace.

What is that, show it.

Well, if you’re really interested in more info, there’s a place online where free speech and discourse happen, and they often discuss this very topic. Here’s one such thread[0].

More seriously, see any discussion on Tibetan Buddhism, underground Catholicism, underground Protestantism, Islam in western China, Winnie the Pooh, letters found in Halloween decorations, Taiwanese airspace, forced labor, etc.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26632065

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#145

Post by MagnumOpus » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 11:46 AM UTC

choonway wrote: post #98

Chris2048 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was part of Qing, and Qing fell, why should Chinese Republican govt and/or PRC have any say in the matter?

ROC took over the assets and liabilities of the qing, just like russia did with the soviet union

So Tibet belongs to the ROC and the mainlanders have no rights to it... Interesting.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#146

Post by hdchenhao » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 12:03 PM UTC

Proud of China, so many comments, ha ha ha！！！

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#147

Post by Daho0n » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 12:05 PM UTC

danielrpa wrote: post #100

hkai wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my friends are any indication, most would be hesitant to move to the US due to physical safety issues in American streets.

Please don't believe in media sensationalism. Yes, covid brought us an increase in violence, but that was simply relative to numbers that have been declining for decades. I'm not saying that we shouldn't keep improving this in the US, but it's still an extremely safe place. Also, most of the physical violence in the US is restricted to specific cities or areas within larger cities which you should generally be able t…

I was taught to always compare to those that do better, not just point at an awful shithole and say "see how good we are doing compared to them!" The US is not an "extremely safe place" compared to those that do best and it's extremely bad in racisme. No other western democracy imprison such a huge chunk of its population based on the color of their skin. Even in a relatively safe place in the US there's a way higher risk of gun violence than in any of the countries you should be comparing with. Murders is off the chart.

Unless someone from HK has a good reason to want to move to the US then all of Scandinavia, most of Europe, some of Asia and some of America outside the US would be a way safer choice.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#148

Post by Daho0n » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 12:16 PM UTC

ChemSpider wrote: post #89

Stevvo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have asked many people in those regions excluding Xinjiang, and the answers are never as black and white as the narratives you read online. In Tibet, people were not too happy about the military presence on the streets, the cultural assimilation or the mao statue in the shadow of Potala palace, but on balance are were happy to be part of China due to the economic development. People felt they would be unemployed wi…

Well, if you are correct, the CCP could/would organize a public vote in Tibet and Hongkong, just like France did in New Caledonia. That is how you handle such a question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Caledonian_independen...

Historically that is done when you either known the result will fall your way or you don't really care.

If California might have a small risk of voting to leave the US do you think the government would hurry and let them vote or try to block it?

I cannot think of a single example where there was a vote of independence where it wasn't either forced (by unrest, war, etc.) or the result was know or didn't matter much. Votes of independence are rarely happening under nice circumstances.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#149

Post by Daho0n » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 12:24 PM UTC

archibaldJ wrote: post #73

Whenever you advise a ruler in the way of Tao, Counsel him not to use force to conquer the universe. For this would only cause resistance. Thorn bushes spring up wherever the army has passed. Lean years follow in the wake of a great war. Just do what needs to be done. Never take advantage of power. Achieve results, Because this is the natural way. Achieve results, But not through violence. Force is followed by loss o…

So your opinion is HK became awful (thorns, weak) because of British imperialism? Seems to me this doesn't make any sense otherwise in context. Force is what took it from China and force is what was used in an attempt to keep status quo.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#150

Post by Daho0n » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 12:29 PM UTC

quink wrote: post #122

christophilus wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve summed it up well. But, I still think Taiwan is next. China has been getting more and more aggressive there. A friend of mine lives in Taiwan, and told me that the Chinese have sent fighter jets deeper and deeper into the island’s airspace of late. The US will make a lot of noise, but I’m going to say there’d be no hot war between the US and China. Also, I suspect the PRC will do a fair bit of soft work before…

> You’ll see pro PRC activism rise in Taiwan Pro-PRC activism is so dead that even anti-CCP activism in the form of the KMT is starting to look on life support. Yeah, there's media organisations that have ties with the PRC and CCP. There's businesspeople that do. But the population at large is more and more that of the fiercely sovereign independent nation of Taiwan. Saying Taiwan is an independent country would "hur…

You are naïve if you think it matters. What matters is if pro-CCP activism is in international news or not. Not if it actually represent the average citizen. It would only matter if it was a vote.