71–80 of 186 posts
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It was part of China during the Qing dynasty since 1750. They declared independence in 1913 after the fall of the Qing but it was not recognized by the Chinese Republican govt. The PRC re-annexed it in 1951.
By that argument the UK could re annex parts of France and the USA. And Italy could take back large chunks of the near east.
People have never been china, talks like a china/CCP expert.
Achieve results, Because this is the natural way. Achieve results, But not through violence.
Force is followed by loss of strength. This is not the way of Tao. That which goes against the Tao comes to an early end.
-Lao Tzu
America should allow open immigration from Hong Kong for a year. China by all rights has a claim to the land. But the people who want freedom should have it and we should take them in.
If my friends are any indication, most would be hesitant to move to the US due to physical safety issues in American streets.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Hong Kong has historically always been a part of "China", you could say it was "invaded" by the British and then the Japanese during WW2. Who cares about History? What matters is now and what people want now. If not, you could use that excuse "but X was always part of Y" to justify just about everything.
Well geopolitics is simply not that simple. What if the Chinese government kept telling the USA that california should hold an independence referendum? Might sound like a stupid example, but Americans would be up in arms at such a proposition. What if China told the USA to end the trade blockade on Cuba so that they fairly take part in the global economy and climb out of poverty? Again, the USA would never consider s…
If there was good reason to think Californians wanted this, I'd be all for it. Also, there most pressing issue is American investment in California, which isn't so much of an issue in HK.
> What if China told the USA to end the trade blockade on Cuba
Not sure what this has to do with HK, where trade and international relations are generally better than the mainland..
> we don't know how many HK residents want to be independent
and we never will because PRC don't want to know, don't want anyone to know, and make it clear that it will punish democratic support, let alone independence.
> You could make the same argument to the UK about Wales and Scotland, or Spain with Catalunia and the Basque Country
And indeed, I would. But the Spanish government isn't ripping up agreements like PRC, plus its a willing member of the EU.
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It's really sad to see that even hacker news has now been plagued by sinophobic racism
This, so much. Everything I say is always taken as apologism, while I just like my country. If a US born american like his country, it's patriotism. If a China born naturalized american likes both of his countries, it's proof of CCP manipulation. Impossible to win.
I'm familiar with lots of narratives that say an American who loves America has been brainwashed by the system. Or is in a position of privilege and is thus not familiar with the problems inherent in the system.
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Maybe my experience is limited as I only live in a neighboring country, but the majority of Chinese I know here, and those I have met in China identify strongly as Chinese, even if they dont agree with everything the government does. This take seems borderline sinophobic.
It relates to what I heard in Taiwain (obviously from a biased leaning). But it's not sinophobic from my perspective, let me explain: From the perspective of some people I talked to in Taiwan, they see it as they "saved" what Chinese culture is, and what China represents today isn't "Chinese culture." That may not even be the right way to describe it but essentially there's culture vs government as the issue and they…
Taiwans different as they've had to largely reframe the Taiwanese identity to be more about the island and its history and people who came (including indigenous peoples), rather than just centric to the Han immigration history which was framing the Taiwanese identity more Chinese-centric. I don't expect them to identify as Chinese citizens, even if they share Chinese culture. But again, not my point.
America should allow open immigration from Hong Kong for a year. China by all rights has a claim to the land. But the people who want freedom should have it and we should take them in.
Huh?
The people of Hong Kong have a claim to the land of Hong Kong. The people of I don't know, Shanghai have a claim to the land of Shanghai. The People's Republic of China doesn't even "by all rights" have a claim to the mainland. They do have de facto control. They have de jure control in the broad international view. The don't "by all rights" have control over anything, not over Taiwan, not over Hong Kong, not over Shanghai or Beijing. What does "by all rights" even mean?
That said, the US doesn't have "by all rights" have control over its entire territory either (native Americans, Hawaii, etc., etc.), but Hong Kong is meant to be in a special situation until at least 2047 by international treaty and beyond that by the people who reside there having a claim to the land they reside on and have since well before the founding of the PRC.
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We can all disapprove of what the current CCP is doing, but you cannot compare Hong Kong's situation to Taiwan, Tibet or Xinjiang, in fact you're muddling a bunch of completely different situations. Hong Kong has historically always been a part of "China", you could say it was "invaded" by the British and then the Japanese during WW2. I obviously disapprove of the suppression of the HK populace with force, but this i…
> Hong Kong has historically always been a part of "China", you could say it was "invaded" by the British and then the Japanese during WW2. Who cares about History? What matters is now and what people want now. If not, you could use that excuse "but X was always part of Y" to justify just about everything.
History does matter. You cannot just invade a country, steal territory and then later say "it doesn't matter if this was once your territory, what matter is NOW and now I own it so get off my lawn".
That's just not how it works. In terms of history Hong Kong belongs to China and only in super recent history it was "taken" by the British always with the arrangement that it still belongs to China and would get handed back to China. So now that China does what is rightfully their right people act surprised, because the West hoped that if a little bit of time passes that China will stop caring but they were wrong. China took care of what was rightfully theirs and kept a tight grip over it because it saw what the West wanted to do and honestly fair play to them.
I m in HK and I don't know what to think. Between protestors destroying the streets like monkeys and the country punishing everyone using this as an excuse, we're well surrounded :D Hong Kong shouldn't be independent but is China the right country for us, is how I jokingly troll both extremes. End of the day nobody cares, we're still discussing who elect the mayor of the city and people are talking like we're losing…
> I come from France where we have the tradition to use saints' names (mine is a very classical example) and I moved to China and got a daughter there with my local wife.
It might not be correct to comment on local HK.