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China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

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Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#61

Post by hedgedoops2 »

fat-chunk wrote: post #20
hntroll666 wrote: post #3

That's what the CCP always does: invade, stick their tentacles into every possible crevice, cut off any avenues by which it might lose power, and begin tightening and strangling, over the screaming protests of the local people. They did it in Tibet, they're doing it in Xinjiang, they're doing it in Hong Kong. They plan to do the same thing in Taiwan.

We can all disapprove of what the current CCP is doing, but you cannot compare Hong Kong's situation to Taiwan, Tibet or Xinjiang, in fact you're muddling a bunch of completely different situations. Hong Kong has historically always been a part of "China", you could say it was "invaded" by the British and then the Japanese during WW2. I obviously disapprove of the suppression of the HK populace with force, but this i…

Here's how. Hong Kong is part of China, yeah, but it was (under one country two systems) an autonomous part, with its own constitution, law and judiciary, which was democractic. What makes a state? Territory, legal and executive autonomy, defense. HK did not have defense, but it had everything else. It was a de facto state, and unfortunately HAD to be, because it was to be democratic in China. Hence, it was de-facto invaded when the "security law" was imposed (in violation of HK autonomy). The analogy is not perfect, and for sure this does not make it worse or better (it's bad because it's a violation of democratic rights and against the expressed wishes of at least half the population that demonstrated against the extradition law, NOT because of souvereignity issues). But there is an analogy with invading a foreign country that is pretty strong.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#62

Post by 1996 »

fat-chunk wrote: post #25
nuller wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just let the HK people decide. You know thats not going to happen because noone wants to be Chinese. Even the fucking Chinese dont want to be Chinese.

It's really sad to see that even hacker news has now been plagued by sinophobic racism

This, so much. Everything I say is always taken as apologism, while I just like my country.

If a US born american like his country, it's patriotism.

If a China born naturalized american likes both of his countries, it's proof of CCP manipulation.

Impossible to win.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#63

Post by jariel »

$43 Billion has moved out to Canada alone. Imagine how much has gone elsewhere [1].

It will be very interesting to see if the rest of the world allows Hong Kong to maintain it's independent financial status or if HK is considered 'China'.

[1] https://nationalpost.com/news/world/a-record-flight-of-capit...

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#64

Post by [deleted] »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #30
hardlianotion wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The criterion is to hold a BNO passport. You don't have to be a millionaire for that. Three million Hong Kongers are eligible.

There were 6.489 million people in Hong Kong when it reverted back to China , they should have given everybody that before they left.

[deleted]

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#65

Post by Chris2048 »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #21
Mauricebranagh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tibet was independent before it was taken over by force

It was part of China during the Qing dynasty since 1750. They declared independence in 1913 after the fall of the Qing but it was not recognized by the Chinese Republican govt. The PRC re-annexed it in 1951.

If it was part of Qing, and Qing fell, why should Chinese Republican govt and/or PRC have any say in the matter?

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#66

Post by gmueckl »

hntroll666 wrote: post #3

That's what the CCP always does: invade, stick their tentacles into every possible crevice, cut off any avenues by which it might lose power, and begin tightening and strangling, over the screaming protests of the local people. They did it in Tibet, they're doing it in Xinjiang, they're doing it in Hong Kong. They plan to do the same thing in Taiwan.

If you look at the New Silk Road Initiative with that mindset, China is in the process of building up influence over countries around half the globe. Foreign governments get huge loans for funding immense infrastructure projects to facilitate trade with China. Reportedly, these loans come with terms that prevent these governments from speaking or acting against China. At least some states are too poor to repay the loans as a lump sum, which gives these agreements teeth.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#68

Post by hkai »

hntroll666 wrote: post #3

That's what the CCP always does: invade, stick their tentacles into every possible crevice, cut off any avenues by which it might lose power, and begin tightening and strangling, over the screaming protests of the local people. They did it in Tibet, they're doing it in Xinjiang, they're doing it in Hong Kong. They plan to do the same thing in Taiwan.

I am also upset by the lack of elections, but looking at the US politics from Hong Kong, I see a lot of similarities.

The attempts to silence and stigmatize opposition, to close opposition media outlets and deplatform them on social media, harassing advertisers to make sure they don't advertise with the opposition, and the media working with the government to promote some events or views and to bury some others — that all is painfully similar to Hong Kong.

You guys over in the US should take a closer look at that.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#69

Post by hkai »

mimikatz wrote: post #67

America should allow open immigration from Hong Kong for a year. China by all rights has a claim to the land. But the people who want freedom should have it and we should take them in.

If my friends are any indication, most would be hesitant to move to the US due to physical safety issues in American streets.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#70

Post by vmception »

fat-chunk wrote: post #20
hntroll666 wrote: post #3

That's what the CCP always does: invade, stick their tentacles into every possible crevice, cut off any avenues by which it might lose power, and begin tightening and strangling, over the screaming protests of the local people. They did it in Tibet, they're doing it in Xinjiang, they're doing it in Hong Kong. They plan to do the same thing in Taiwan.

We can all disapprove of what the current CCP is doing, but you cannot compare Hong Kong's situation to Taiwan, Tibet or Xinjiang, in fact you're muddling a bunch of completely different situations. Hong Kong has historically always been a part of "China", you could say it was "invaded" by the British and then the Japanese during WW2. I obviously disapprove of the suppression of the HK populace with force, but this i…

When I read the constitution of Hong Kong (Basic Law) and the supporting laws in mainland China, I come to the same conclusion as you.

To me, this obviously overrides the text or "spirit" of any handover treaty, specifically the Sino-British Joint Declaration, as the Basic Law is a constitution.

Leaning on that treaty as a Hong Kong citizen or non-British outside observer requires either complete ignorance, or complete desperation to ever reference it. Which I understand for the people of Hong Kong who have no options and don't want the change of life, but it doesn't embolden me to see it as exceptional as it follows their form of due process, by the book.

So, I agree with you. Disagreeing with you requires me to have a completely separate higher standard than how governments we actually respect operate and what they would tolerate.

I'm not comfortable with any of the procedures, but I really do see how we get a very distorted view of what China is, its goals, and how it operates. And there is a level of constitutional consistency towards territorial unity, which is very predictable. If you are willing to accept that (and how almost every action can be construed to undermine territorial unity) then China is very easy to operate and live in comfortably. Not so dissimilar to an institution or amusement park where you never look behind the scenes and just do the PG-rated activities made available to you, and if you stick with that you're fine. Obviously not what we are used to and strive for in "the west", but not really the nightmare its portrayed as either. Its sad to me that even trying to explain things to you all in a pragmatic way could get me detained in China (because its not completely exalting the territorial unity of China and raises questions about it), but I really think its useful to understand and that its impossible to explain another way.

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