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China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

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Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#91

Post by dustinmoris »

alau1218 wrote: post #58
BossingAround wrote: post #23

I wanted to write "sad day for Hong Kong", but I realized it's been more like a sad year and a half for HK, if not longer. One wonders how long can CCP keep doing the same thing again and again. I guess we shall see. My heart goes to those in HK.

The liberal open Hong Kong we used to know has died in 2020, the year they passed the national security law. Elites and professionals in Hong Kong are thinking where to move their families to and those chose to stay have to accept they are now no difference than an ordinary mainland Chinese citizen. CCP did not and will not keep any of their promises. All the Sino-UK agreement and the promise of 'One country Two syst…

Why is the CCP "evil"? What have they done? You might disagree with the philosophy of their political party, but they are not invading other countries like we do, they don't torture innocent people who have never had a trial on Guantanamo Bay, they don't send drones over innocent villages ripping children and women into pieces over false claims of mass destruction weapons, they don't write offensive tweets like American presidents about other nations and engage in childish name calling, they don't employ a central intelligence agency with the aim to destabilise other nations and assassinate their leaders, they don't put migrant children into cages at the border, theiy don't put a knee on black people's neck until they suffocate, they don't break into black people's homes and shoot women in their sleep.

Sure the CCP does some questionable things sometimes, but put things into perspective. People in China don't die from gun violence, they don't die from terrorist attacks, they don't die from COVID-19 either. Maybe the CCP gets more things right than they get wrong and some people just don't like to admit it?

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#92

Post by ngcc_hk »

Stevvo wrote: post #34
hntroll666 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do I mean by invade? Simply ask anyone in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, or Taiwan, if they want mainland Chinese there, or if they want to be governed by the CCP. I accept that territory is won or lost, and the Tibetans and Uyghurs lost their territory, but they were definitely invaded and conquered.

I have asked many people in those regions excluding Xinjiang, and the answers are never as black and white as the narratives you read online. In Tibet, people were not too happy about the military presence on the streets, the cultural assimilation or the mao statue in the shadow of Potala palace, but on balance are were happy to be part of China due to the economic development. People felt they would be unemployed wi…

Have you read any well done and independent surveys that support your claim ? Majority does not support the take over like this and chinese identity is much less than hker identity.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#93

Post by pyinstallwoes »

tidenly wrote: post #77
pyinstallwoes wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It relates to what I heard in Taiwain (obviously from a biased leaning). But it's not sinophobic from my perspective, let me explain: From the perspective of some people I talked to in Taiwan, they see it as they "saved" what Chinese culture is, and what China represents today isn't "Chinese culture." That may not even be the right way to describe it but essentially there's culture vs government as the issue and they…

Taiwanese are not Chinese though, so my point responding to OP wasn't about them. I mean people who are born & raised Chinese - they usually do want to be Chinese, even if its just in the cultural sense and not the CCP (but even then, most don't seem very vehemently opposed). Taiwans different as they've had to largely reframe the Taiwanese identity to be more about the island and its history and people who came (inc…

Many "Taiwanese" people identify as Chinese. So I can't say that what you said is correct. They view Taiwan as "the last remnant of real China"

However your other points make sense.

I guess the idioms and expression lack the complexity in discussing the issue. Thanks for your input, it adds color.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#94

Post by woutr_be »

hkai wrote: post #69
mimikatz wrote: post #67

America should allow open immigration from Hong Kong for a year. China by all rights has a claim to the land. But the people who want freedom should have it and we should take them in.

If my friends are any indication, most would be hesitant to move to the US due to physical safety issues in American streets.

From what I can tell, most HKers are looking at Canada, UK or Australia. I haven't really heard anyone talking about moving to the US.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#95

Post by quink »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #82

If china can get away with it, just like if Burma/Myanmar army can get away with its ... Anyway it has been so for several thousands years of totalitarian rules. There is no way out of that horrible culture. Hong Kong showed them a more liberal way of life. Taiwan showed them the more Democratic way of life. Instead they choose to use power and a system with no succession rule. It is karma of that culture. An ever lo…

The CCP has now been in control of China for essentially everyone's living memory yet apparently the masses are still uneducated enough, too volatile, too vindictive and wild to support a democracy. Plus, how could the CCP not be elected if it's that great, after all?

Either the people of China, even after a lifetime rule by the great CCP, are somehow inherently worse by those above criteria than those in all functioning democracies or they're being played like a fiddle, gaslit like no one's ever been gaslit before.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#96

Post by dschuler »

alau1218 wrote: post #58
BossingAround wrote: post #23

I wanted to write "sad day for Hong Kong", but I realized it's been more like a sad year and a half for HK, if not longer. One wonders how long can CCP keep doing the same thing again and again. I guess we shall see. My heart goes to those in HK.

The liberal open Hong Kong we used to know has died in 2020, the year they passed the national security law. Elites and professionals in Hong Kong are thinking where to move their families to and those chose to stay have to accept they are now no difference than an ordinary mainland Chinese citizen. CCP did not and will not keep any of their promises. All the Sino-UK agreement and the promise of 'One country Two syst…

It really died in 2019 when the protesters started setting fire to other Hong Kongers that disagreed with them by throwing Molotov cocktails at them, or just beating a guy in head with a large steel pipe for moving a brick out of the street.

The CCP taking over now vs. after 2046 was the only predictable outcome here, but the freedom to speak your mind and disagree without threat of physical harm was lost before.

EDIT: The predictable downvoting without replying shows the downvoters don't refute the facts, being that protesters physically attack others who disagree. That's not democracy.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#97

Post by fractallyte »

dustinmoris wrote: post #91
alau1218 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberal open Hong Kong we used to know has died in 2020, the year they passed the national security law. Elites and professionals in Hong Kong are thinking where to move their families to and those chose to stay have to accept they are now no difference than an ordinary mainland Chinese citizen. CCP did not and will not keep any of their promises. All the Sino-UK agreement and the promise of 'One country Two syst…

Why is the CCP "evil"? What have they done? You might disagree with the philosophy of their political party, but they are not invading other countries like we do, they don't torture innocent people who have never had a trial on Guantanamo Bay, they don't send drones over innocent villages ripping children and women into pieces over false claims of mass destruction weapons, they don't write offensive tweets like Ameri…

Ugh, please!

If this (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071) is not a definition of evil, I don't know what is. Heinous crimes that go all the way to the CCP top.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#98

Post by choonway »

Chris2048 wrote: post #65
tibbydudeza wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was part of China during the Qing dynasty since 1750. They declared independence in 1913 after the fall of the Qing but it was not recognized by the Chinese Republican govt. The PRC re-annexed it in 1951.

If it was part of Qing, and Qing fell, why should Chinese Republican govt and/or PRC have any say in the matter?

ROC took over the assets and liabilities of the qing, just like russia did with the soviet union

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#100

Post by danielrpa »

hkai wrote: post #69
mimikatz wrote: post #67

America should allow open immigration from Hong Kong for a year. China by all rights has a claim to the land. But the people who want freedom should have it and we should take them in.

If my friends are any indication, most would be hesitant to move to the US due to physical safety issues in American streets.

Please don't believe in media sensationalism. Yes, covid brought us an increase in violence, but that was simply relative to numbers that have been declining for decades. I'm not saying that we shouldn't keep improving this in the US, but it's still an extremely safe place.

Also, most of the physical violence in the US is restricted to specific cities or areas within larger cities which you should generally be able to avoid.

Regarding ethnic violence against Asians, it's even more inflated by the media. The statistics don't support the narrative of regular violence against people from Asia:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in...

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