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On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

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Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#781

Post by steve_adams_86 »

throwaway-0987 wrote: post #174

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

> My fears about being poor again drive my wife and kids crazy. They think I'm nuts and say I need counseling. I probably do.

Same with mine. I never travelled outside of Canada until my mid thirties because the notion of spending that kind of money (despite having it) seemed absurd. My kids lost opportunities because in the back of my mind, we’re constantly on the brink of homelessness. I have a seriously difficult time shaking this state of mind.

Something I’ve found useful is reminding myself that 1) I managed to survive and stay healthy despite how poor I was, and when things go wrong, there is typically a way forward. If something were to go wrong, it would likely be outside of my control. 2) my energy is better spent being moderate about money, otherwise relaxing about it, but then focusing my energy on immediate things which matter and are within my control. 3) most people I know carry and manage more debt that I’ve had in my entire lifetime. If I were to lose everything tomorrow, I’d still be ahead of them. I always exaggerate my risks.

Good luck.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#782

Post by Viliam1234 »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #589
criticaljudge wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people quickly tire of it when they have to take care of those lazy people directly. I'm not saying nothing should be done. Just that it is a fallacy to think the government simply has infinite money to spend.

I don’t think they are lazy. Many have emotional problems. Most people complain about their jobs, or multiple jobs, but know it provides so much more than money. Half the people I know would have 0 friends, O social life, if not for those lousy jobs. It’s ironic you say the government doesn’t have infinite money to spend. We are about to throw close to two trillion out of a helicopter. There is not a person, well one…

> Most people complain about their jobs, or multiple jobs, but know it provides so much more than money. Half the people I know would have 0 friends, O social life, if not for those lousy jobs.

Without the job, they would have extra 8 hours (plus commute time) a day to meet their non-job friends.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#783

Post by eplanit »

LocalH wrote: post #331
throwaway846 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar story I'm now late 30s; father left when i was 2 died of aids when I was 6 Mother washed dishes then was unemployed from age 12-now and we bounced around her boyfriends houses My metric (edit: for myself) "have you been poor" is gathering extra condiments from a gas station and having mustard on bread for a meal. We had food stamps, and a small social security check. I always had a bed, and food, but barely a…

Equity should operate just as much, if not more so, by boosting people up than by cutting people down. It should also favor the individual and small business over large megacorporations. I fear that the concept of equity presents a real possibility of a race to the bottom if we're not careful to prevent a Harrison Bergeron situation. That doesn't mean I think we should avoid equity, just that we should be cognizant o…

"Equity should operate just as much, if not more so, by boosting people up than by cutting people down."

This is central to the whole problem with this concept of "equity". If the implementation, as you say, _at all_ involves cutting someone down, then it's morally bankrupt. Who decides who gets cut down? Does the person being cut down have a voice? Are they told how they're supposed to feel about it? Is that not creating a newly marginalized group? This will lead to lots of division, and understandably so.

There's a lot of truth to the adage "two wrongs don't make a right". Equity seems to be about saying that everyone should have the same outcome, by force if necessary.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#784

Post by covidthrow »

whimsicalism wrote: post #747
covidthrow wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one were to redistribute all of the top 5%'s wealth at once: - it wouldn't be liquid, so you'd be giving part ownership in assets - the value would be slightly less than median yearly income per recipient. At a pretty sizeable 5% average return, the individuals would net about $2,000 a year. - if they chose to sell the assets, they would end up with about one year's median income and then it's gone I'm not sure ho…

> For groups that preach so frequently about global and ecological sustainability, there's a disturbing blind spot for economic sustainability What you've done is described a position ("redistributing all of the top 5%'s wealth at once"), described the problems with it, and then criticized my obvious blind spots due to this oversight. Forgotten in this tale is that I never held that position in the first place! You a…

Very solid reply, thank you.

upvoted

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#785

Post by labcomputer »

Aeolun wrote: post #775
ip26 wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know MIT but my first reaction is that number probably does include room & board, which in a college town might be $20k a year. $50k a year in tuition is still not a bargain, of course.

Not at all, considering my tuition was €1500, with the total my university received for me (with government supplement) being around €5000 / year. I really cannot imagine what they’d do with that kind of money. Besides build super fancy buildings of course.

Professors don't make much these days, but check out the salary for university administrators in the US. The top of the food chain has quite nice compensation, and the amount of administrators is probably too high.

Universities also compete on who has the best food and nicest dorms. Prospective student often tour campuses, so having a pretty one with lots of rose bushes, ivy, and brick is good for recruiting. That all costs money.

Another thing is that elite private universities often have strong need-based financial assistance (discounts). MIT, for example, claims that the average need-based scholarship is about $47k (on tuition of 53k). They also claim 31% attend tuition-free.

Making a small inference: Those who actually pay the full $53k in tuition are helping those who pay nothing.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#786

Post by sorisos »

chmod600 wrote: post #755
nostrademons wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw nothing of the sort in chmod600's comment. They even led with "When wearing your policymaking hat, I agree that you should consider what people actually do." Policymakers in Washington and poor immigrants on the streets need different advice, because they control different things . If you are President or Congressperson in the U.S.A, then by all means: let's have a more humane immigration system, and universal…

Yes, thank you. An important element of my argument is to focus on what's in your control. It's not exclusively about immigrants. In fact, immigrants are less likely to be caught up in notions of fairness because they probably thought to themselves before they came something like "this is going to suck and be unfair, but it will be worth it for my children and grandchildren". So they just make the best of it and comp…

> If every time someone shares their success, the response is instantly about how privileged or lucky they are, then our culture is sick. We should listen to and support those stories.

I would argue that a culture which attributes success in life to personal effort or choices is sick. This makes people blame themselves for not trying hard enough etc, when in reality there are more decisive factors such as who your parents are (or luck).

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#787

Post by dghlsakjg »

blackshaw wrote: post #422
dghlsakjg wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a large and very diverse place, and very frequently you will find that there are very clear laws about what a landlord is and isn't allowed to charge for, as well as what proof they need to take a deposit. For example, Seattle has its own set of rules which are quite clear and don't allow contracts that would override them, in other places there are no rules, and what is in the contract is what you must abi…

> I have never heard a Canadian ask for US style healthcare. I've never heard anyone of any nationality say they wish their country had US-style healthcare.

Touche

This comment was an aside about right wing news stories that pop up in the US about how Canadians are flocking to the US to get healthcare. It normally revolves around how some person was on a waiting list or couldn't get the procedure they wanted in Canada and had to come to the US. The truth is that there is normally an extenuating circumstance that isn't mentioned (e.g. the treatment is experimental or not approved in Canada. The patient is stuck on a wait list because it is a need-based system, so they might not 'need' that procedure more than the people ahead of them.)

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#788

Post by dragonwriter »

labcomputer wrote: post #785
Aeolun wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all, considering my tuition was €1500, with the total my university received for me (with government supplement) being around €5000 / year. I really cannot imagine what they’d do with that kind of money. Besides build super fancy buildings of course.

Professors don't make much these days, but check out the salary for university administrators in the US. The top of the food chain has quite nice compensation, and the amount of administrators is probably too high. Universities also compete on who has the best food and nicest dorms. Prospective student often tour campuses, so having a pretty one with lots of rose bushes, ivy, and brick is good for recruiting. That al…

> Making a small inference: Those who actually pay the full $53k in tuition are helping those who pay nothing.

Possibly, though it's also possible that those who have paid into the University's endowment in the past are helping those who pay nothing.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#789

Post by lkbm »

tangjurine wrote: post #420
sandworm101 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> ... insurance not required. Where exactly is insurance not required for a motorcycle? Or do you mean moped? And it was -12c with two inches of snow on my car this morning. Anything on two wheels would be lethal. Good luck even riding a bicycle with two inches of new snow over a season's worth of compact ice.

I thought for my state there was no need for insurance, but turns out in 2019 they started requiring it. Seattle rarely gets snow so I didn't think about weather conditions. I think a motorcycle couldn't work for your case, but some sort of one or two person on road / off road vehicle would still be cheaper than buying a car.

In my experience, motorcycle insurance will be about a 20% the cost of car insurance, so it's still a lot cheaper.

70 mpg is also pretty nice.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#790

Post by rossdavidh »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #506
rossdavidh wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking to the people in the professional class already, your points are valid. If you're talking to someone in OP's situation back then, your points are dispiriting. I know you didn't mean it that way, but it is important to a person who is in a disadvantaged situation to not hear well-meaning members of the professional class saying what sounds like, "you can't make your situation better until the whole s…

you make a good point. The trick is separating "Don't give up" from "it's your fault if you haven't escpaed poverty." Cause it's also dispiriting to have worked your ass off for 10+ years and still be poor and have someone telling you if you were trying hard enough you would be in a different position.

I agree with that as well.
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