On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't • Hacker News Board

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#171

Post by genedan » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #2

A while ago I read about a study that surveyed people with inherited wealth. IIRC they ranged from having inherited tens to hundreds of millions. No matter how much they had inherited, when asked how much they would need to have inherited to feel financially secure and not have to worry about money, they said they would need something like half again to double. I may be misremembering the details, but that was the gi…

As I become more wealthy, I have started to tackle problems that I never really thought about when I wasn't as well off, things that cropped up when I thought I'd finally have peace of mind. In retrospect, the insecurity was always there, but I had the luxury of ignoring it when I was poorer.

Once I started making enough not to worry about rent, the problem was then saving enough for things like retirement, setting up tuition funds for the family, etc. Now the problem is managing my mix of investments and having a big enough pad to insulate myself from the occasional recession. But, I think even if my net worth were to triple there isn't really anything I can do to avoid a great depression-level economic catastrophe. Beyond that, I know not what money problems people with eight or nine figure net worths are scared of but I would assume if I ever made it that far the anxiety won't go away.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#172

Post by skohan » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

airhead969 wrote: post #65

skohan wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought of “broke” as the transitory status of not having money, while “poor” is a socioeconomic status. I.e. a university student could be too broke to buy beer before their next stipend comes in, but that doesn’t make them poor if they can still go home and drive mom & dad’s Tesla on the weekend.

I think of those words interchangeably. "Poor" is also ambiguous, i.e., "the poor" (economic class status) and "are poor" (having little money, orthogonal to any time period). Examples: "My grandparents grew-up poor, but became middle-class." and "Alms for the poor." And, there are only so many relative modifiers, so one has to use synonyms to make a point. ;)

I still think the meanings are distinct. For instance, you could say: "I can't get a home loan because I'm poor", "I qualify for food stamps because I am poor", but attributing these things to being broke sounds a bit funny. By the same token, you wouldn't say "My grandparents grew up broke, but became middle-class"

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#173

Post by anon_tor_12345 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #70

airhead969 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever slept in a bus station? I have, in the US. I went for 3 years without any healthcare, and then it took another 7 years and a lawyer (who took $16k USD) to get more permanent help. One thing is for certain: with 99.99% of people, their friendliness (or meanness) is proportional to the size of your bank account. If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you wi…

> If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature. You don’t need to be homeless to discover that some people lack sympathy. I lack sympathy. It doesn’t mean I’m an asshole. Sympathy isn’t empathy (huge distinction). Some people can’t tell the difference and everyone is just bad (cue the big tears). This is especially true if you’re a freeloa…

>This is especially true if you’re a freeloader.

says the guy that was a pog for 24 years...

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#174

Post by throwaway-0987 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know.

I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town.

Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade school, then got into college (full Pell Grant because I was so poor) and came out with a few degrees.

Everything I own is fully paid for. House, cars, etc. because I'm always afraid I'm going to be poor again. Of course, I only own modest things. Nothing fancy.

If you have never been poor, you may not realize how awesome Small houses and Toyota Corollas are.

My fears about being poor again drive my wife and kids crazy. They think I'm nuts and say I need counseling. I probably do.

Anyway, people think I'm 'privileged' now because I earn a lot of money, but they have no idea that I used to sleep on the floor and eat in soup lines.

I made it and you can too. Poverty has no color. It impacts everyone. You can't tell just by looking at someone.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#175

Post by a2tech » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #56

blackshaw wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a bunch of things in this article strike me as very American (I'm British). No-one in the UK worries about not being able to afford healthcare if they're poor, nor do they need a car to get to the grocery store in under an hour (unless they live in an isolated home out in the countryside, which probably means they're rich, not poor.) There are many, many places you can live in the UK without needing a car to ge…

>>On the other hand, I find it laughable that this author describes a 900sqft apartment as "very small". 900sqft would be considered a decent-sized, mid-range apartment in London, Yep, we actually bought a 3-bed house(not apartment) in UK, and the total space is 950sqft(about 90square metres). And that's not a small house around here by any measure. American houses are like their cars - absurdly large.

American here that grew up in a 3 bedroom house with around 900sqft of space and 4 people, and now live in a 2500sqft house with just my wife and 1 dog..I don't know how we did it. Thinking back it was so insanely cramped, my parents bedroom was the 'big' bedroom and it was just large enough to fit a queen sized bed, a chest of drawers, a gun case, and then a night stand on one side of the bed. The kids bedrooms barely fit a twin sized bed and a small desk with room to stand. Tiny bathroom, living room just big enough for 4-5 people. Very tiny kitchen, not large enough for a dishwasher.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#176

Post by forgotmypw17 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

BunsanSpace wrote: post #134

ausbah wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you know "free loaders" aren't why most people are homeless right?

Very location dependant. In my city the majourity of panhandlers you see have homes, and choose not to work and beg on the street. You can tell who's homeless because they don't bother you, they sit in silence, or in front of a shelter. Or they ask for food rather than money. People harassing you for money? Panhandlers. I'm sure it's different in cities that have higher costs of living s.t. a min wage earner can't af…

No offense, but I don't think you personally know a single homeless person.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#177

Post by spaetzleesser » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #2

A while ago I read about a study that surveyed people with inherited wealth. IIRC they ranged from having inherited tens to hundreds of millions. No matter how much they had inherited, when asked how much they would need to have inherited to feel financially secure and not have to worry about money, they said they would need something like half again to double. I may be misremembering the details, but that was the gi…

This study maybe true. But there are levels of poverty where people don't just have a subjective desire to have more money but have real hard worries about paying for food, health care or a place to live. That's totally different from people wanting a nicer car or nicer house and way more psychologically stressful.

The lack of empathy for the wealthy goes both ways. The wealthy traditionally haven't had much empathy for people with less money so it's not too surprising that people with less money don't have much empathy for them. It makes me really angry when I see multimillionaires in the news warning about the risks raising the minimum wage. It's actually pretty sad.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#178

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

airhead969 wrote: post #82

austincheney wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature. You don’t need to be homeless to discover that some people lack sympathy. I lack sympathy. It doesn’t mean I’m an asshole. Sympathy isn’t empathy (huge distinction). Some people can’t tell the difference and everyone is just bad (cue the big tears). This is especially true if you’re a freeloa…

You may have missed the point, so I'll state it explicitly: almost all people lack empathy, it's just more than some have the self-control not to stab homeless people to death. Sympathy, gratuity, and freeloading are somewhere off in the distance. I hope you're not trying to slip in some duplicitous language to accuse me of being freeloader. What does it have to do with anything?

[deleted]

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#179

Post by spaetzleesser » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

genedan wrote: post #171

simonh wrote: post #2

A while ago I read about a study that surveyed people with inherited wealth. IIRC they ranged from having inherited tens to hundreds of millions. No matter how much they had inherited, when asked how much they would need to have inherited to feel financially secure and not have to worry about money, they said they would need something like half again to double. I may be misremembering the details, but that was the gi…

As I become more wealthy, I have started to tackle problems that I never really thought about when I wasn't as well off, things that cropped up when I thought I'd finally have peace of mind. In retrospect, the insecurity was always there, but I had the luxury of ignoring it when I was poorer. Once I started making enough not to worry about rent, the problem was then saving enough for things like retirement, setting u…

Just remember that your anxieties are child's play compared to the anxieties of people worrying every day about paying for their place to live, food or health care. These worries are tally different.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#180

Post by skohan » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #167

This is a great write-up, and as someone who spent time being poor-ish, it really resonated. What I realized from my own life experience: the US sawed the bottom rungs off the ladder in the 1950s when it suburbanized. There is no affordable housing or transportation in 95% of the North American land area, and virtually every societal problem we deal with either stems from this or is made worse by it. Then the healthc…

I sometimes wonder if that event horizon is encroaching higher and higher up the economic ladder over time. Most of the people in my personal cohort - with university degrees and good careers - have no problem living a good life in the US. But with the rapid inflation of the cost of healthcare, higher education and housing, I wonder how that lifestyle can possibly become accessible to people who weren't essentially born into it. I think increased stratification in terms of lifestyle and opportunity is not good long term for social cohesion or political stability.