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Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers
141–150 of 194 posts
Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did they arrive after redlining ended, early in the 1970s?
This seems like a huge stretch and reeks of taking a tortured argument one major leap too far. How many people in society 1) were in a position to redline or seriously influence redlining, 2) called for and actively supported it, or 3) even knew about it? Even if someone's ancestors arrived post-slavery and pre-civil rights movement (forget a specific overhanging issue like redlining), would you significantly attribu…
This is very well said.
Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But reparations should be paid, if for nothing else, at least for the unpaid hours. You must be young to speak with such certainty. Post-slavery, black sharecroppers basically made nothing after expenses. So how much was their time actually worth? (An economist will ask this.) Post-slavery, norhern states, which had no slaves, paid the cost of welfare for millions of black families. So how does that factor in? Sinc…
> Post-slavery, black sharecroppers basically made nothing after expenses. So how much was their time actually worth? (An economist will ask this.) How much was the labor of slaves worth to the slaveowners? surely you're not arguing it was worth nothing? > Post-slavery, norhern states, which had no slaves, paid the cost of welfare for millions of black families. So how does that factor in? The price of social program…
Seeing a lot of emotion and exclamations, but no experience, logic or insight. I can reply to all of your snarky comments with, "Why wouldn't what I said apply?"
> surely you're not arguing it was worth nothing?
So how much was it worth? Where is your calculation?
The south fell behind the north because of using manual labor over industrialization, so it may well have been worth nothing.
People fail to distinguish that the south was involved in slavery, not the north. The north literally owes nothing, and that means the US federally owes nothing.
> This is unhelpful.
No, your virtue signalling is completely unhelpful. We know where you stand - all talk and no action. You've suggested no solutions, and offered nothing but snarky rhetoric.
Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
The following is all just an opinion, and obviously this type of subject is a discussion. Doubly so because I'm white. I don't think anyone should pay any more than they benefitted from slavery. The average person has no ancestors who owned slaves, and the only benefits they got were things like cheaper goods and services. Added up over a lifetime, it's probably not a lot. But some people come from ancestors who made…
> Doubly so because I'm white This is a logical fallacy (though a popular one). An idea is either good or bad. The traits of the person speaking the idea are irrelevant, and do not make a good idea bad, or a bad idea good. Further, an idea doesn't become more or less "subject to discussion" as a result of the race of the person speaking it.
I agree strongly with what I'm saying, but seriously: there's a good chance of bias here, so it really should be a discussion including all sides.
I'm basically claiming, ofc I think my idea is good, but I really don't want to assume it.
Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really? I think the resistance to reparations comes from folks like me who don't see a reason we should pay anything. Most of my ancestors are German immigrants to the northeast US who arrived after slavery was abolished. The remainder were poor Scotts Irish who continued to live in poverty in northern Appalachia. I understand, but do not agree with, the logical hoops many jump through to justify indebtedness to all…
A reparations law suit would most likely involve a court of law in which victims and benificiaries are identified, damages are calculated, and assets change hands. This fantasy where you just have to give up your personal property for no good reason is just a fantasy. It's not the way the law works. There will be a reason, it will be documented by a trail of papers and professional judges and attorneys will agree tha…
If reparations for slavery ever happen in the US, it will be a political decision, not one resulting from a lawsuit. That isn't to say they courts won't be involved at one or more points, as you can certainly imagine challenges, but for it to happen it will have to come from Congress first.
Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really? I think the resistance to reparations comes from folks like me who don't see a reason we should pay anything. Most of my ancestors are German immigrants to the northeast US who arrived after slavery was abolished. The remainder were poor Scotts Irish who continued to live in poverty in northern Appalachia. I understand, but do not agree with, the logical hoops many jump through to justify indebtedness to all…
> I understand, but do not agree with, the logical hoops many jump through to justify indebtedness to all current Americans. I also do not think direct reparations are the best approach to resolving the continuing racism in America. There's no "logical hoops." It's a concrete and straightforward argument. Black and Native Americans are differently situated in a way that shows up starkly in the data: https://academic.…
> The United States government is still paying pensions owed to children of civil war veterans
Did you read the article? There are two people being paid (as of 2013), and they are the daughters of Civil War vets. So what’s the problem?
Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
The European empires had all the power: they had the military dominance, they had the means, they had the transport, they had the economic controls, and they benefitted the most accordingly. They also spent centuries torturing Africa. 12.5 million Africans don't end up enslaved and heading to the Americas without the European empires making it happen. The US owes a lot for its part, no question (what I'm saying is no…
99% of European didn't have anything to do with this trade and slavery was progressively forbidden on the territory of nearly all European countries during middle age (since 1315 for France for example but also in other countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe ). All big European revolutions after 1789 had claims to stop slavery in overseas territory. So lots of European people have actually…
It's pretty meaningless to say that slavery was outlawed in most European countries for hundreds of years, even though some had colonies around the world until well into the 1900s. European countries just outsourced the slavery and called it empire building.
Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As soon as those claims are paid, the floodgates will open and you can’t say “no” to others when you’ve said “yes” to the first "yes we can" -US President Barack Obama
Yes, YOU can. Give your funds to such causes. Not me and not my government.
I'm not responsible for slavery, the US (and other) governments are.
Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
A reparations law suit would most likely involve a court of law in which victims and benificiaries are identified, damages are calculated, and assets change hands. This fantasy where you just have to give up your personal property for no good reason is just a fantasy. It's not the way the law works. There will be a reason, it will be documented by a trail of papers and professional judges and attorneys will agree tha…
How does this work when no one alive today stole any of the property? When none of the people it was stolen from are alive? What is the (broadly consistent) legal doctrine for expropriating living people's property on the basis of their ancestors sins? How do you draw the line around legitimate grounds for litigating a criminal grievance from the past? How do you establish the appropriate damages? I ask these importa…
You're thinking about the situation upside down. First we find the stolen property, then we return it to the legal owner. One cannot legally own stolen property. The law is very clear: no one gives what one does not have. If for example "Leslie" inherits assets from human traffickers, those are not Leslie's assets; they are stolen assets. Leslie is not a criminal being prosecuted for crime. No one is being punished. Stolen property is being returned to the rightful, legal owners. This has nothing to do with sin, or morality, or emotion, or even race. This is just about accounting and following the law. It really is as simple as it sounds.
Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I understand, but do not agree with, the logical hoops many jump through to justify indebtedness to all current Americans. I also do not think direct reparations are the best approach to resolving the continuing racism in America. There's no "logical hoops." It's a concrete and straightforward argument. Black and Native Americans are differently situated in a way that shows up starkly in the data: https://academic.…
> The United States government is still paying pensions owed to children of civil war veterans Did you read the article? There are two people being paid (as of 2013), and they are the daughters of Civil War vets. So what’s the problem?
Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."