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Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

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Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#31

Post by thedudeabides5 »

seph-reed wrote: post #2

This seems like an absolutely indispensable technology for achieving reparations. Most black Americans have ancestors who (slavery) worked a lot of unpaid hours. Having clear metrics on how many slaves there were is a step towards having a well founded number for what the cost of reparations should be. There are some places in the US which have started, but they're just kind of pulling numbers out of a hat and I don'…

People who are holding real estate exposure in the US are the primary beneficiaries.

Then you add in redlining, and it starts to look systemtic.

So the cure should be appropriate to the disease, make home ownership practical, affordable, and (if you are into reparations) subsidized.

Or at least as subsidized as being a rich person is in the mortgage origination process (via that stealth socio-economic test that is your FICO score).

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#32

Post by MrMan »

adventured wrote: post #27
seph-reed wrote: post #2

This seems like an absolutely indispensable technology for achieving reparations. Most black Americans have ancestors who (slavery) worked a lot of unpaid hours. Having clear metrics on how many slaves there were is a step towards having a well founded number for what the cost of reparations should be. There are some places in the US which have started, but they're just kind of pulling numbers out of a hat and I don'…

edit: expected downvotes of course; nobody dares to engage on this particular discussion about the vast sums the Europeans must be made to pay for their evil deeds (which they've skirted for hundreds of years now, like cowards) > Next we need to figure out who profited the most from slaves and where that money is today. The most? The Europeans. Where is the money? It's in London and Amsterdam among a few other former…

There were three primary groups of beneficiaries - planters in the America's, slave traders in Europe, and the Kingdoms in Africa who were among the procurers and sellers.

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#33

Post by danso »

thegrim33 wrote: post #5
seph-reed wrote: post #2

This seems like an absolutely indispensable technology for achieving reparations. Most black Americans have ancestors who (slavery) worked a lot of unpaid hours. Having clear metrics on how many slaves there were is a step towards having a well founded number for what the cost of reparations should be. There are some places in the US which have started, but they're just kind of pulling numbers out of a hat and I don'…

You do realize that every civilization that has ever existed has both enslaved others and been enslaved in the past, right? Where do your reparations end? Are you going to forcefully take money from me because African Americans were enslaved generations ago, but then forcefully have money taken from them for the other Africans and other races they themselves enslaved in Africa before that? Where does it end? Do you h…

> Do you honestly think that forcefully stealing money from someone at the threat of imprisonment if they don't pay is really going to fly?

How many American citizens went to prison because they refused to send in their contribution to the reparation funds for Japanese internment?

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#34

Post by 01100011 »

iaHN wrote: post #20
Zigurd wrote: post #16

To all those who say it is "impossible" to right the wrongs of history: My family were refugees from a war that resulted in both the Nazis and Soviet Union expropriating property in their home country. Eventually they, and other branches of my family got their property restored or compensated. After the breakup of the Soviet Union, property in many of the former Soviet Union nations was returned to rightful owners, o…

There is a pervasive fear that admitting that the US owes the descendants of slaves something could potentially validate the complaints black people have about other issues in America. See the posts about Timnit Gebru for comments depicting the demands of black people as "too disruptive".

Really?

I think the resistance to reparations comes from folks like me who don't see a reason we should pay anything. Most of my ancestors are German immigrants to the northeast US who arrived after slavery was abolished. The remainder were poor Scotts Irish who continued to live in poverty in northern Appalachia.

I understand, but do not agree with, the logical hoops many jump through to justify indebtedness to all current Americans. I also do not think direct reparations are the best approach to resolving the continuing racism in America.

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#35

Post by mfcl »

thedudeabides5 wrote: post #31
seph-reed wrote: post #2

This seems like an absolutely indispensable technology for achieving reparations. Most black Americans have ancestors who (slavery) worked a lot of unpaid hours. Having clear metrics on how many slaves there were is a step towards having a well founded number for what the cost of reparations should be. There are some places in the US which have started, but they're just kind of pulling numbers out of a hat and I don'…

People who are holding real estate exposure in the US are the primary beneficiaries. Then you add in redlining, and it starts to look systemtic. So the cure should be appropriate to the disease, make home ownership practical, affordable, and (if you are into reparations) subsidized. Or at least as subsidized as being a rich person is in the mortgage origination process (via that stealth socio-economic test that is yo…

Subsidized home ownership? Don't tell Thomas Sowell that idea.

How would that work?

You make it easier for people to own, then the prices increase. Do you subsidize more? If so, then it's just 2008 again.

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#36

Post by Swizec »

thedudeabides5 wrote: post #31
seph-reed wrote: post #2

This seems like an absolutely indispensable technology for achieving reparations. Most black Americans have ancestors who (slavery) worked a lot of unpaid hours. Having clear metrics on how many slaves there were is a step towards having a well founded number for what the cost of reparations should be. There are some places in the US which have started, but they're just kind of pulling numbers out of a hat and I don'…

People who are holding real estate exposure in the US are the primary beneficiaries. Then you add in redlining, and it starts to look systemtic. So the cure should be appropriate to the disease, make home ownership practical, affordable, and (if you are into reparations) subsidized. Or at least as subsidized as being a rich person is in the mortgage origination process (via that stealth socio-economic test that is yo…

> (via that stealth socio-economic test that is your FICO score).

Fun fact: First thing you learn from when moving to USA is to get a credit card immediately. Start working on that score. Even if you don't intend to stay, just in case you change your mind.

My first credit card 5 years ago had a $1000 limit. And only if I kept my bank balance above $1000.

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#38

Post by smt88 »

seph-reed wrote: post #2

This seems like an absolutely indispensable technology for achieving reparations. Most black Americans have ancestors who (slavery) worked a lot of unpaid hours. Having clear metrics on how many slaves there were is a step towards having a well founded number for what the cost of reparations should be. There are some places in the US which have started, but they're just kind of pulling numbers out of a hat and I don'…

Disclaimer: my parents are immigrants, and I have absolutely no genealogical connection to American slavery.

> having a well founded number for what the cost of reparations should be

I just don't understand how someone can talk about a "well-founded number" for reparations in a serious way.

How can you calculate a dollar amount, even within 5 orders of magnitude, for something that happened to millions of people for hundreds of years, affects millions of people today, and we don't have details about any of it?

There are many people who:

- had African ancestors who sold other Africans to slavers

- have a mixture of heritage

- immigrated from Africa long after slavery ended

It's nonsensical to come up with a dollar amount for even a single person, so how can we possibly do it at scale? Should African Americans descended from slave traders be paying reparations to African Americans descended from slaves? Should African Americans pay reparations to Native Americans for living on land that was stolen from them?

There are so few records for any of this, it just seems absolutely insane to me. I am a huge history nerd, and there aren't concrete answers for a lot of things that happened this decade, even with impeccable records.

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#40

Post by horns4lyfe »

seph-reed wrote: post #23
thegrim33 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that every civilization that has ever existed has both enslaved others and been enslaved in the past, right? Where do your reparations end? Are you going to forcefully take money from me because African Americans were enslaved generations ago, but then forcefully have money taken from them for the other Africans and other races they themselves enslaved in Africa before that? Where does it end? Do you h…

The following is all just an opinion, and obviously this type of subject is a discussion. Doubly so because I'm white. I don't think anyone should pay any more than they benefitted from slavery. The average person has no ancestors who owned slaves, and the only benefits they got were things like cheaper goods and services. Added up over a lifetime, it's probably not a lot. But some people come from ancestors who made…

We should probably also consider charging the Europeans that made vast wealth shipping slaves, and the Africans that profited from capturing and selling their countrymen.
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