Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

yomadic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 258 posts

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#141

Post by dvoiss »

umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

> I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." ... And without fail, countless Italians warned me to steer clear of the Roma because "they are all liars and thieves"...

Many of the replies to your comment are from Europeans defending their prejudice likewise as "oh but you don't understand, in Europe it's different because you may be surrounded by a gang of people that are clearly gypsy and they rob you, so it's easy to see why!".

But that's the exact same thing with X race in Y country. Such as blacks in America. It's a broad brush stroke based on an experience or group of experiences that eventually paints the whole race that way.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#142

Post by earthboundkid »

dvoiss wrote: post #141
umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

> I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." ... And without fail, countless Italians warned me to steer clear of the Roma because "they are all liars and thieves"... Many of the replies to your comment are from Europeans defending t…

My friend did some malaria research in Myanmar/Burma. He found that the Burmese would be quite explicit in their anti-Rohingya prejudice. He’d hear people say things like “Oh, they’re basically dogs and not people” and not realize that it’s rude to be so openly prejudiced in US culture. He wasn’t surprised when the genocide started after he left.

You can find these things in basically every country, sadly.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#143

Post by earthboundkid »

wussboy wrote: post #91
jrochkind1 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is definitely common in today's world, that alone is not enough to conclude the people are "naturally" xenophobic or racist, that it is "natural".

On the contrary I think both scientific evidence and theory point strongly to the fact that all humans are racist. In group/out group is baked in to our genes. None of that makes it right, of course. But pretending we are not all prone to racism is not useful

“Racism” is the wrong word for it because “race” is a modern concept. Certainly prejudice and xenophobia are natural and pervasive human qualities, but “race” per se doesn’t exist before 1492, so there was no “racism” just lots of particular prejudices (anti-Semitism and anti-Samaritanism, for example).

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#144

Post by Bost »

Causality1 wrote: post #41
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

You use the word "gypsy" a lot. The Roma I've met consider it very offensive, almost n-word level offensive. Is that not the case in Europe?

I have the impression those being better off, with (somewhat) higher social status, education being better connected to the majority population find "Gypsy" to be derogatory.

But once I met a poor family referring to themselves this way, so a bit perplexed and curious I rather asked them directly if they consider themselves being Roma or Gypsy... only to get an ambiguous answer.

Edit: I met that family in the eastern Slovakia.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#145

Post by pmoriarty »

nickpp wrote: post #120
pmoriarty wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But their culture is just nothing about that. Women in dirty clothes carrying a trolley all day and going through garbage cans collecting dumps. Kids 5,6,7 years old with no shoes and no clothes on are walking around main streets.." Riiiight. It must be their culture? You think that if you give them clean clothes they'll throw them away? You think they prefer a meal picked out of a garbage can to one from a restaura…

It’s the culture. They’d let the clean clothes get soiled black rather than wash and keep them clean. They’d rather eat stolen food from garbage rather than have to work for a restaurant meal. My mother was a primary school teacher in a Gipsy village and saw this first hand: small kids being encouraged to beg or steal instead of study by their own parents, abandoning school for the street lifestyle their family lived…

The same racist swill has been slung at nearly every minority and immigrant group.

People of Asian descent were accused of being dirty, so were black people, so were Irish and Italian immigrants, Mexicans, Indians, and of course Native Americans.

Their poverty was thrown in their face, as so was their lack of education (which was often mandated by law or other forms of discrimination).

Now in the US Irish and Italian communities have grown greatly in stature, and the slurs that were used against them are not so acceptable any more, are they?

Asians are now accused, if anything, of being far too educated and unfairly advantaged, though you still hear slurs thrown at them when talk turns to Chinatown or other Asian slums (as if any slum inhabitant, no matter what race or ethnicity, is going to afford to strut around in a freshly pressed three-piece suit).

Muslims and people from the Middle East are now getting their turn at being hated and accused of being dirty and lazy in many "civilized" countries to which they come for a better life.

Of course, one of the most well known and oppressed of groups who faced the very same accusations were Jews.

They also were called dirty, lazy, thieving, etc.. and at the same time rich, thieving, and miserly.

This kind of racist, bigoted, xenophobic libel leads straight to lynchings, pogroms, and gas chambers.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#146

Post by s5300 »

kostarelo wrote: post #94

I was bored and raised In Thessaloniki, Greece where there’s a big community of Roma but also it’s a common understanding that lots of them from Bulgaria are constantly driving to Greece. In the community that I grew (Evosmos, West Thessaloniki) there were many of them. I’ve met a few that were integrated in the community, managed to finish school etc. But their culture is just nothing about that. Women in dirty clot…

Yeah... this isn't about culture.

This is what poverty looks like, especially in underdeveloped areas.

Have you not seen Venice Beach lately? Or perhaps you might want to say that the current state of Venice Beach is just... it's culture?

Go watch a video on West Point, Liberia

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#147

Post by s5300 »

nickpp wrote: post #120
pmoriarty wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But their culture is just nothing about that. Women in dirty clothes carrying a trolley all day and going through garbage cans collecting dumps. Kids 5,6,7 years old with no shoes and no clothes on are walking around main streets.." Riiiight. It must be their culture? You think that if you give them clean clothes they'll throw them away? You think they prefer a meal picked out of a garbage can to one from a restaura…

It’s the culture. They’d let the clean clothes get soiled black rather than wash and keep them clean. They’d rather eat stolen food from garbage rather than have to work for a restaurant meal. My mother was a primary school teacher in a Gipsy village and saw this first hand: small kids being encouraged to beg or steal instead of study by their own parents, abandoning school for the street lifestyle their family lived…

This is called "learned helplessness" and it stems from generations of extreme poverty.

Jeesh, do a bit of introspection dude.

I can't believe the high horse some of these SWE's (attained or proclaimed) ride sometimes. Why do some people so talented in some areas so gleefully bask in their ignorance of others.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#148

Post by earthboundkid »

colinb wrote: post #66
jmcdl wrote: post #25

I ask myself quite genuinely if under the same circumstances I would live like that. It's really very hard to imagine that I or anyone I know would just accept living in trash like that. We would surely all agree to get some shovels and at least clean up the sidewalk in front of our house...right? What stops them from doing that? It seems like a choice.

I’ll confused. What has San Francisco got to do with this?

Lol, I a Baltimoron, also live amongst garbage. It’s what happens if you don’t pay for street sweepers.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#149

Post by Bost »

maest wrote: post #86
marton78 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that many Europeans are racist towards Roma and the other gypsy peoples. Much of what they say will be pure nonsense (e.g., they are stupid, not fit for work, etc), but other common statements you might hear also have some truth to them. For example, "they all steal" is of course a gross simplification, as many Roma are well integrated and live a regular life. However, if you are surrounded by a group of peop…

> a bit racist It's more than a bit. It's institutionalised and pervasive racism. One big difference from the US is that Eastern-Europeans don't even acknowledge there is any racism against gypsies so it's not even part of the public discourse. Much like how fish don't realise they're surrounded by water, so do Eastern Europeans not acknowledge that they live in a racist society. The tensions flaring up in the US are…

> I'm originally from an Eastern European country and only realised the racism in Eastern Europe once I lived abroad for multiple years and drew parallels with the highly mediatised US racial tensions.

I've been having exactly(!) the same "only after I lived abroad" experience.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#150

Post by figomore »

ratww wrote: post #131
malkia wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "циганин" (tsiganin, or ciganin) in Bulgaria. But this is now deemed offensive, hence roma.

In Brazil (which has a sizeable Romani population, and had two Romani presidents), the direct translation of this, "Cigano", is still the one officially used.

I didn’t know that Brazil had two presidents with Romani origin. According to Wikipedia they are Juscelino Kubitscheck and Washington Luís.
Post reply on HN