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The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

yomadic.com

41–50 of 258 posts

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#41

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

You use the word "gypsy" a lot. The Roma I've met consider it very offensive, almost n-word level offensive. Is that not the case in Europe?

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#42
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to write pretty much this. Here's a picture to clarify even further. https://imgur.com/m88rKwx

Honest question: I can't figure out what the point is that that image is making. (I can't reconcile the image with the caption.) Could someone explain?

When Europeans talk about racism in America they are left/libertarian in their views (red dot in the low left quadrant in the left image). When they talk about the Romani, they are basically Nazis (so extreme in the top right quadrant that you need to draw a swastika to extend the graph to get the dot to appear)

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#43
post #12

Nice to see them being portrayed as friendly and in a somewhat positive light. Unfortunately, this is one of the most unfairly treated ethnic groups in Europe - the prejudice runs high even amongst people with generally progressive views - and I have to object to this headline's labelling of the area. I hope that in the coming years that would be treated as a racial slur.

I do not think they would be friendly to any local Bulgarian that wandered into the neighbourhood. Also "many children don’t attend school." is rather a problem, isn't it. And though I do not know much about Bulgaria, I doubt it's because of the money. I'd assume Bulgaria has free schools and probably social support for financially struggling kids. There are so many different nations in Europe, some with their nation…

Roma in the Netherlands don’t keep their children in school either, even though it’s free and compulsory. Unsurprisingly they experience the issues associated with being uneducated people.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#44
post #36

You can go on google maps and judge for yourself: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1589047,24.785939,3a,75y,202... You can compare to other areas of the city: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1589047,24.785939,3a,75y,202... I think racial tension came down a lot the last 10 years, and the reason is that quite a few Roma work in Western Europe. For the ones in Stolipinovo I believe the prime destination is Dortmund. FWF…

Afraid you gave the same two first links

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#45
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think they would be friendly to any local Bulgarian that wandered into the neighbourhood. Also "many children don’t attend school." is rather a problem, isn't it. And though I do not know much about Bulgaria, I doubt it's because of the money. I'd assume Bulgaria has free schools and probably social support for financially struggling kids. There are so many different nations in Europe, some with their nation…

Post author here: Note that the people that live in Stolipinovo are Bulgarian. I guess you meant to say "I do not think they would be friendly to any non-Roma Bulgarian". That's an assumption that (from experience) is incorrect. Also, I'm not American, but I get that a lot.

> Note that the people that live in Stolipinovo are Bulgarian.

Bulgarian (Greek, Macedonian, Hungarian. or other nationalities with nation-states) has two semantic meanings: citizenship and ethnicity. So it is possible for individuals to be Bulgarian citizens, but not of Bulgarian ethnicity. Or vice versa. Someone of Bulgarian descent born in USA won't be necessarily Bulgarian-in-the-citizenship sense.

So in the grandparent case, he obviously meant "non-Roma", without regards to citizenship.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#46

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

Incredible photos and a great story. Thanks for putting this together. People forget all too easily how everyone in this world is trying to live their best life with the resources they have. That becomes exponentially more difficult when someone treats you as less of a person for whatever delusional reasons they rationalize in their minds.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#47
Might be worth pointing out that those apartment buildings are everywhere in the ex-communist block. In various states of (dis)repair. I think they were called "comfort III" (with I being the best).

They're as bad as they look even when maintained.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#48
post #11

In Bulgaria, Gypsies are viewed as a huge problem and people are often openly racist against them, even on national TV. The stereotype is that the gypsies will steal whatever they can, trash and start fights and many other things. My grandma would hide her stuff if sees a gypsy, on the other hand there's a subset that she would adore. The subset, according to her, are the "tradesmen" gypsies and she would often buy s…

I think the root of all that goes way back. I've lived in Bulgaria for most of my life(with the exception of around 4-5 years during university). Back in the day when I was a kid and teenager(think 90's and early 2000's) gypsies were a big problem. I remember one summer when everyone went away for a holiday and there was just me and my mum in a 300 meter radius for around two weeks. A house was getting robbed every night during those two weeks. And we are talking pretty much the center of the capital.

That said, at some point(not sure when or how) that all changed. Now in the day-to-day life, gypsies cause no harm whatsoever. They are a minority and as such I have very little interaction with them but in the few instances I've had, they've always been very warm and kind and the once I've worked with have been incredibly hard working and devoted.

But even though I see a huge improvement, we need to look back a bit to see the root cause: I had the chance to meet some of my grand-grand parents and they all had roma friends when they were young in the early 20-th century. However there have been huge political campaigns against them(both socially and economically) between 1944 and 1989(even though those were flowered up as "integration" programs). I think what we see now is one of the many scars the regime left behind.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#49
post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

I agree that many Europeans are racist towards Roma and the other gypsy peoples. Much of what they say will be pure nonsense (e.g., they are stupid, not fit for work, etc), but other common statements you might hear also have some truth to them. For example, "they all steal" is of course a gross simplification, as many Roma are well integrated and live a regular life. However, if you are surrounded by a group of peop…

> Roma and the other gypsy peoples

I thought gypsy was the exonym for the Roma(ni) people. Are there other "gypsy" peoples?

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post author here: Note that the people that live in Stolipinovo are Bulgarian. I guess you meant to say "I do not think they would be friendly to any non-Roma Bulgarian". That's an assumption that (from experience) is incorrect. Also, I'm not American, but I get that a lot.

> Note that the people that live in Stolipinovo are Bulgarian. Bulgarian (Greek, Macedonian, Hungarian. or other nationalities with nation-states) has two semantic meanings: citizenship and ethnicity. So it is possible for individuals to be Bulgarian citizens, but not of Bulgarian ethnicity. Or vice versa. Someone of Bulgarian descent born in USA won't be necessarily Bulgarian-in-the-citizenship sense. So in the gran…

Yes, it's quite the can of worms when it comes to cultural/ethical/heritage/nationality identities in Bulgaria/the Balkans (and much of Europe).

I was clearly an outsider, I've visited Stolipinovo with other Bulgarians (non-Roma) who are also clearly outsiders, and we were all treated well.

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