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The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

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Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#91

Post by wussboy »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #84
umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

It is definitely common in today's world, that alone is not enough to conclude the people are "naturally" xenophobic or racist, that it is "natural".

On the contrary I think both scientific evidence and theory point strongly to the fact that all humans are racist. In group/out group is baked in to our genes. None of that makes it right, of course. But pretending we are not all prone to racism is not useful

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#92

Post by shadowprofile77 »

EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

As a long-time "hobby" photographer of street and neighborhood life in certain parts of Mexico, I'm curious, how did you build rapport with the locals for the sake of your photography, and that friendly acceptance. I'd love to hear any advice or observations you have.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#93

Post by dx87 »

mpol wrote: post #51
knuthsat wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe also that Roma people in the US are successfully integrated and do not live in ghettos or outskirts. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0494831/ Documentary above also really nicely shows the microculture of these people

The Roma are well integrated in the US? I saw a TV show where that was clearly not the case, there was a community where everybody was supposed to get married inside their own community. I don't think that is integration. Ofcourse I don't know how big this group was, relative to all Roma people in the US. This was some reality marriage show, I think on TLC or something. (yes, my then-girlfriend watched this :) ).

It's probably not a good idea to draw conclusions about an entire culture based on what you saw on a single episode of a reality TV show.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#94

Post by kostarelo »

I was bored and raised In Thessaloniki, Greece where there’s a big community of Roma but also it’s a common understanding that lots of them from Bulgaria are constantly driving to Greece.

In the community that I grew (Evosmos, West Thessaloniki) there were many of them. I’ve met a few that were integrated in the community, managed to finish school etc.

But their culture is just nothing about that. Women in dirty clothes carrying a trolley all day and going through garbage cans collecting dumps. Kids 5,6,7 years old with no shoes and no clothes on are walking around main streets At noon sneaking into stores and stealing whatever they can. Their teenagers are bullying everyone they can when they go out for no reason. They are deep into the drugs and the guns game. Police are always on them but there isn’t much they can do but to isolate them in further areas outside the city.

I’ve seen all those things and they aren’t pretty.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#95

Post by maest »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #59
mrtksn wrote: post #11

In Bulgaria, Gypsies are viewed as a huge problem and people are often openly racist against them, even on national TV. The stereotype is that the gypsies will steal whatever they can, trash and start fights and many other things. My grandma would hide her stuff if sees a gypsy, on the other hand there's a subset that she would adore. The subset, according to her, are the "tradesmen" gypsies and she would often buy s…

There is a lot of "racism" talk on this thread, but criminal Roma gangs are an undeniable fact in Europe as they are regularly dismantled by the police. One cannot defend the exploitation of the poor, young kids, the disabled, the old, sent to western Europe and forced into begging, stealing or mugging locals and excuse that with "cultural relativism". These ones live in shanty towns, do not send their young children…

> But criminal Roma networks are a reality nobody can deny.

True, but that doesn't mean there is no racism. If anything, this would support the fact that racism exists, since conflict tends to make people think in terms of in-group/out-group.

A follow-up question is whether the racism is justified. An even more important question is whether the conlfict stems from a failure to integrate different cultures and whether taking deliberate steps to encourage integration would resolve these conflicts.

Btw, the same argument also comes up wrt racial tensions in the US: "Blacks are x% of the population, yet are involved in y% of crime" with y >> x.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#96

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

Causality1 wrote: post #41
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

You use the word "gypsy" a lot. The Roma I've met consider it very offensive, almost n-word level offensive. Is that not the case in Europe?

Although at the NGO level activists claim that "Roma" should be used instead of "gypsy", it is very common when talking to Balkan Roma to be corrected by them: “Don’t call us Roma, we’re ". Obviously their own endonym is Rom, plural Roma, but they sometimes bristle at outsiders using it.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#97

Post by flyinglizard »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #85
marton78 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that many Europeans are racist towards Roma and the other gypsy peoples. Much of what they say will be pure nonsense (e.g., they are stupid, not fit for work, etc), but other common statements you might hear also have some truth to them. For example, "they all steal" is of course a gross simplification, as many Roma are well integrated and live a regular life. However, if you are surrounded by a group of peop…

Came here expecting to find this, because THIS is in fact what happens in every online discussion of Roma I see, not some other "pure nonsense", but just this. In America, if people say "The things people say about Black people are a gross simplification HOWEVER", it's usually something really racist that's about to follow. Say, "Sure many Black people are fine, but if you find yourself surrounded by Black people in…

Being surrounded by any one group in a foreign place could be a bit alarming, whether these are Roma in Bulgaria, Blacks in inner cities, or Whites in some rural town, or Arabs in Marseille.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#98

Post by petre »

marton78 wrote: post #30
umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

I agree that many Europeans are racist towards Roma and the other gypsy peoples. Much of what they say will be pure nonsense (e.g., they are stupid, not fit for work, etc), but other common statements you might hear also have some truth to them. For example, "they all steal" is of course a gross simplification, as many Roma are well integrated and live a regular life. However, if you are surrounded by a group of peop…

> if you are surrounded by a group …

It really depends. I've been in that situation in open air markets, at fairs etc and no, definitely not in trouble. Walk into a ghetto? Maybe.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#99

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

eznzt wrote: post #23
turbinerneiter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never met a Sinti or Roma, but many eastern europeans, and they all had nothing but hate for this group, based on stories of crime and theft. Ticked me off a bit, since that was exactly the prejudice eastern europeans faced and face in western europe.

>Ticked me off a bit, since that was exactly the prejudice eastern europeans faced and face in western europe. At least here in Spain that is because most of the Eastern Europeans we get are Roma. So people automatically assume Bulgarians or Romanians are all Roma and act like them.

> At least here in Spain that is because most of the Eastern Europeans we get are Roma.

While Roma might be highly visible to you because some beg in the streets or appear in crime reportage, Roma are still only a minority of the Eastern European immigrants in Spain. They are a minority even of the Balkan countries’ immigrants in Spain. You just don’t notice all those ethnic Romanians from Romania who don’t look particularly exotic, and who are quietly working hard in some industry outside the public eye (i.e. agriculture, or taking care of the elderly, or even the IT sector).

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#100

Post by glitcher »

kostarelo wrote: post #94

I was bored and raised In Thessaloniki, Greece where there’s a big community of Roma but also it’s a common understanding that lots of them from Bulgaria are constantly driving to Greece. In the community that I grew (Evosmos, West Thessaloniki) there were many of them. I’ve met a few that were integrated in the community, managed to finish school etc. But their culture is just nothing about that. Women in dirty clot…

> But their culture is just nothing about that.

And then you go on to describe the effects of poverty, not culture. Sounds to me like they need economic opportunity, not further isolation.

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