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The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

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Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#51

Post by mpol »

knuthsat wrote: post #14
umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

I believe also that Roma people in the US are successfully integrated and do not live in ghettos or outskirts. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0494831/ Documentary above also really nicely shows the microculture of these people

The Roma are well integrated in the US? I saw a TV show where that was clearly not the case, there was a community where everybody was supposed to get married inside their own community. I don't think that is integration.

Ofcourse I don't know how big this group was, relative to all Roma people in the US. This was some reality marriage show, I think on TLC or something. (yes, my then-girlfriend watched this :) ).

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#52

Post by knolan »

I’m Irish. We had a similar gypsy group in this country commonly referred to as Travellers and to say that there is utter hatred of them by the general populace is an understatement. The division between communities is extreme.

It’s difficult to look past ones prejudices and I’m very aware of my own in this situation. It’s easy to hate on the entire community because of the appalling behaviour of a few and their insular nature as a community.

Of course it’s far more complex than the surface reveals and there are huge issues around education, inclusion, and integration.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#53

Post by EB-Barrington »

Causality1 wrote: post #41
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

You use the word "gypsy" a lot. The Roma I've met consider it very offensive, almost n-word level offensive. Is that not the case in Europe?

Not that I have encountered. Perhaps all of the Gypsy/Roma I have spoken with are too polite to let me know otherwise.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#54

Post by EB-Barrington »

colesdefectum wrote: post #46
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

Incredible photos and a great story. Thanks for putting this together. People forget all too easily how everyone in this world is trying to live their best life with the resources they have. That becomes exponentially more difficult when someone treats you as less of a person for whatever delusional reasons they rationalize in their minds.

Thanks, my pleasure.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#55

Post by vicpara »

It's so easy to speak of something one has only a superficial understanding of.

If one really wants to get a better understanding go and try to live like a normal person in the vicinity of their community. Pose as a foreigner or journalist and they'll tell you how much they have to endure. Pose as a neighbour minding your own business and you'll see what happens :)) I guess this will be an amazing article.

The gypsies are the master of social engineering and fake propaganda. Rroma is the new branding put forward after everyone agreese the word gypsy carries too much of a bad meaning. It's curious people don't ask themselves why the word American is a good word and the word gypsy is a bad word.

It's so easy to judge from the outside the Bulgarians as racists because of the self preservation mechanisms they set in place to live together with gypsies. Surely if one does the math to gauge the money that were spent by a tiny country to integrate the gypsy communities for more than 5 decades will exceed by multiple orders of magnitude the investment the western or US governments in social integration and justice. The same experiment can be easily replicated in any Eastern European country that still has large communities of gypsies.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#56

Post by simlevesque »

eznzt wrote: post #31

I think it would be impossible to have a productive discussion about Roma in an American website.

We think the exact same thing when non-americans discuss America. If you really think like that, speak only about yourself and nothing else ever.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#58

Post by locallost »

Wonderful photos. It's become a stereotype that Roma are all about emotions, sadness and hapiness at the same time, but the photos show it remarkably well. I agree with him -- it's simple, nobody should live like that. But in reality it's complicated because a lot of people in that part of the world have it hard. It's difficult to accept that somebody may have it even harder, and simply cannot change much on their own. Even if they try, they are struck down by systemic racism. And if they don't try, they confirm the stereotypes. And on the other hand the empathy is mostly academic and limited to watching photos like these. Once you're directly exposed to something like this, it's easy to look the other way because individuals are also products of their environment, and the environment is tough.

The situation of Roma is always a good counter example to the statement "no racism in Europe". Perhaps there was never official segregation, but there is almost always implicit segregation. They can ride the bus, but more intimate relationships between the Roma and non-Roma population are rare. True friendships, marriages etc. So it's not Mississippi of the 50's, but there's also been little progress in the last decades. Which is a pity because IMHO there is no quick fix, only slowly changing what is considered to be normal.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#59

Post by throw_m239339 »

mrtksn wrote: post #11

In Bulgaria, Gypsies are viewed as a huge problem and people are often openly racist against them, even on national TV. The stereotype is that the gypsies will steal whatever they can, trash and start fights and many other things. My grandma would hide her stuff if sees a gypsy, on the other hand there's a subset that she would adore. The subset, according to her, are the "tradesmen" gypsies and she would often buy s…

There is a lot of "racism" talk on this thread, but criminal Roma gangs are an undeniable fact in Europe as they are regularly dismantled by the police. One cannot defend the exploitation of the poor, young kids, the disabled, the old, sent to western Europe and forced into begging, stealing or mugging locals and excuse that with "cultural relativism".

These ones live in shanty towns, do not send their young children to school even in places where school is mandatory under 15 thus perpetuate the cycle of illiteracy. Is this what educated people here are defending? really? This kids aren't even given a chance to succeed.

They have a tight sense of community and most of them never assimilate wherever they go and barely make effort to speak the local language. This isn't a cliché or a stereotype, that's the reality of these gangs. There is next to 500 Roma slums around Paris, and we're talking about people that have for EU citizenship. One cannot blame that situation on "racism", this is 100% due to criminal behaviour and gangs trafficking vulnerable people.

Yes, all Roma aren't like this, a lot of them work tough jobs in agriculture or construction. But criminal Roma networks are a reality nobody can deny.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#60

Post by eznzt »

vetinari wrote: post #33
carlsborg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend. Let me help you with a definition from the top hit on Google for this word.. racism /ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/ noun prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

I would like to know your opinion, after living for a few weeks nearby one of such group. Maybe you would turn racist then? /s Most people here do not have that experience. In their ignorance they think, that it is a case of racism. It is not. It is not tolerating asocial behavior. Romas, who integrate into the society are accepted by the majority. Unfortunately, that requires for the individuals to break ties with t…

>Romas, who integrate into the society are accepted by the majority.

In fact, here in the south, they are completely indistinguishable--we have the exact same skin colour, facial features, etc. You can only tell romas apart when they choose to. In other words, this is not a case similar to blacks in America.

As you said it is probably an unsolvable problem. Better in ghettos than causing trouble. If any roma wants to leave the ghetto and live a normal life, nobody would bat an eye--in fact, nobody would even notice.

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