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The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

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Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#111

Post by xyzzyz »

de_Selby wrote: post #63
ithkuil wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Roma and the other gypsy peoples I thought gypsy was the exonym for the Roma(ni) people. Are there other "gypsy" peoples?

Travellers could also be considered gypsies. They are mainly in Ireland and England and are regarded similarly. Part of the problem is that a nomadic lifestyle just doesn't gel with modern society so they don't integrate at all. For the same reason it's hard for these people to find work and a subset do often turn to crime. Culturally they also have very conservative and often misogynistic views which acts as another…

Interestingly, English and Irish travelers are unrelated to mainland gypsies: they are mostly of the same ancestry as regular English and Irish, they just live different lifestyle on the edge of society. On the other hand, most mainland gypsies are actually their own ethnicity with their own separate genetic ancestry.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#112

Post by pmoriarty »

fs111 wrote: post #74
pmoriarty wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Most people on the planet are not white, most societies are not white, yet there is plenty of racism in those too. Look at Asia: Han Chinese vs minorities like Uighurs. Ever heard of that? Do you follow the news about Myanmar at all? It is complete utter nonsense that racism is a white invention or has anything to do with being white. Take you white guild nonsense elsewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_As…

"It is complete utter nonsense that racism is a white invention or has anything to do with being white."

Whoever you think you're arguing against in your reply to my post, it's not me.

Let me make my position clear.

Racism is not a white invention.

I never said it, I don't believe it.

What I said is "Not everybody's racist".

That doesn't mean there aren't racists in all societies or cultures. Maybe there are maybe there aren't. That's tangential to my point. But it's clear that there are many racists in many societies.

But, again, that doesn't mean that "everybody's racist". They're just not.

Neither does my point imply that "racism is a white invention or has anything to do with being white". You picked that out of thin air, not out of anything I said, because I never so much as implied it.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#113

Post by ununoctium87 »

kostarelo wrote: post #94

I was bored and raised In Thessaloniki, Greece where there’s a big community of Roma but also it’s a common understanding that lots of them from Bulgaria are constantly driving to Greece. In the community that I grew (Evosmos, West Thessaloniki) there were many of them. I’ve met a few that were integrated in the community, managed to finish school etc. But their culture is just nothing about that. Women in dirty clot…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=419bc_YjaFk

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#114

Post by p2detar »

petre wrote: post #108
vicpara wrote: post #55

It's so easy to speak of something one has only a superficial understanding of. If one really wants to get a better understanding go and try to live like a normal person in the vicinity of their community. Pose as a foreigner or journalist and they'll tell you how much they have to endure. Pose as a neighbour minding your own business and you'll see what happens :)) I guess this will be an amazing article. The gypsie…

Integration does work but not when you segregate a minority into ghettos. The Germans learned this and they stopped segregating refugees. Everywhere else the refugees end up in a 'camp'.

Uhm, I’m honestly curious, who do you think is doing the segregation of Roma?

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#115

Post by yodelshady »

titanomachy wrote: post #101
kostarelo wrote: post #94

I was bored and raised In Thessaloniki, Greece where there’s a big community of Roma but also it’s a common understanding that lots of them from Bulgaria are constantly driving to Greece. In the community that I grew (Evosmos, West Thessaloniki) there were many of them. I’ve met a few that were integrated in the community, managed to finish school etc. But their culture is just nothing about that. Women in dirty clot…

To be fair, that behaviour is probably more associated with poverty than their "culture". North America also has people "wearing dirty clothes, carrying a trolley, and going through garbage cans" but it has nothing to do with their ethnic or cultural background, it's due to a lack of better options. In some places, like Andalusia, the Romani people flourished and developed a distinctive and globally appreciated cultu…

It is absolutely a poverty problem first. Racism is much harder to maintain when the evidence in front of your face is of doing just fine, and where continuing to be racist costs you something. Capitalism got this right.

On one hand, European culture is indeed hypocritical to throw stones at the US over racism. Quite staggeringly so, actually. If I may, it's also an excellent demonstration that skin colour really isn't that important, and the US obsession over it is a bit weird.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#116

Post by throw_m239339 »

mrtksn wrote: post #68
throw_m239339 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more likely explanation is that the Bulgarians screwed up with the policy and the Turks got something right. You're insinuating that Bulgaria enacted policies that forced Roma into a life of crime. You're also insinuating that all Europe enacted policies that forced Roma in Europe into crime since they behave likewise everywhere in Europe this specific group of gypsies goes which is a preposterous assertion. Th…

Well, if it’s not about gypsies and policies but about criminal gangs then that’s the police not doing their job.

> Well, if it’s not about gypsies and policies but about criminal gangs then that’s the police not doing their job.

If parents don't send their children to school so they can have chance to a better life then the parents, thus their culture, is the issue, not the police, a culture that is essentially criminogenic because it encourages bad behaviour and segregation due to illiteracy.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#118

Post by EB-Barrington »

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #92
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

As a long-time "hobby" photographer of street and neighborhood life in certain parts of Mexico, I'm curious, how did you build rapport with the locals for the sake of your photography, and that friendly acceptance. I'd love to hear any advice or observations you have.

Just be kind, confident, honest, and friendly. As with most things in life - practice practice practice.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#119

Post by EB-Barrington »

bruceb wrote: post #72

“...two local Bulgarian girls roped into providing translation duties...” Did the author get two teenage girls or women to help with translation?

Author here:

At the time, I believe both girls may have been teenagers. One has become my friend - she is now in her early twenties.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#120

Post by nickpp »

pmoriarty wrote: post #102
kostarelo wrote: post #94

I was bored and raised In Thessaloniki, Greece where there’s a big community of Roma but also it’s a common understanding that lots of them from Bulgaria are constantly driving to Greece. In the community that I grew (Evosmos, West Thessaloniki) there were many of them. I’ve met a few that were integrated in the community, managed to finish school etc. But their culture is just nothing about that. Women in dirty clot…

"But their culture is just nothing about that. Women in dirty clothes carrying a trolley all day and going through garbage cans collecting dumps. Kids 5,6,7 years old with no shoes and no clothes on are walking around main streets.." Riiiight. It must be their culture? You think that if you give them clean clothes they'll throw them away? You think they prefer a meal picked out of a garbage can to one from a restaura…

It’s the culture.

They’d let the clean clothes get soiled black rather than wash and keep them clean. They’d rather eat stolen food from garbage rather than have to work for a restaurant meal.

My mother was a primary school teacher in a Gipsy village and saw this first hand: small kids being encouraged to beg or steal instead of study by their own parents, abandoning school for the street lifestyle their family lived.

There are exceptions, of course, but the dark attraction of the gipsy culture should not be understated.

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