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DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

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Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#91

Post by tmzt »

pjmlp wrote: post #45
mhd wrote: post #40

It also seems to combine the worst of both platforms: Apps. Is there any OSDEV work that goes towards a more integrated, component-based architecture? As sad as it seems, Unix tools & pipes seems to be the most successful and enduring attempt in that direction. Systems doing that on a language basis seem mostly dead (Lisps, Smalltalks, Oberons), component architecture isn't doing much (OpenDoc as the prime example, C…

Component architecture is everywhere on the desktops, just not on those using UNIX text terminals. COM has been the underlying driving technology of Windows since Vista, where the Windows team took the Longhorn .NET ideas and redid them with COM, since then we got COM improved as WinRT/UWP. Which despite the common mix with the store (blame marketing teams), is what to this day most Windows 10 APIs make use of, and n…

I'm not sure where you're getting "COM has been the underlying driving technology of Windows since Vista".

COM and OLE, which is based on COM, have been a core part of the Windows shell since at least Windows 95/NT 4.0/IE 4.

You can see this in the registry where shell extensions are simply registered OLE Components, using OLE Activation to to register themselves as toolbars, folder views, context menus and additional commands in context menus.

If you are referring to drivers or core OS concepts at a lower level, you may be right, but DirectX and class drivers were already using COM in places before Vista.

COM is a standard vtable implementing a single core interface, called IUnknown which provides a method of reference counting as well as a way to look up implementaions of specific other interfaces from a given pointer. These interfaces dervive from that base, so they can always be cast as IUnknown.

The rest builds on this base.

source: Inside OLE and Inside Windows 95

https://books.google.com/books/about/Inside_OLE.html?id=adpw...

https://www.bookdepository.com/Inside-Windows-95-Deluxe-Edit...

Edit: saw the reply below, the specific Longhorn components only expanded the scope of what is extensible to include searchable/virtual/indexed filesystem extensions and few other places, based on the innovative concepts in Longhorn. My reading of your comment originally was that Vista was a departure from what came before, though it appears that it may have been intended to say it was more of a return to the simpler COM.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#92

Post by IshKebab »

swiley wrote: post #90

I'm not convinced google learned anything with android WRT pushing GPU vendors to release driver source. Fuschia looks like it will only be a repeat of these problems.

I think they have learned the lesson that GPU venders will never release their source code. Fuchsia seems to be designed precisely to accomodate that fact - drivers are well isolated and speak to the kernel through a well defined (and hopefully stable!) interface (I think this is FIDL).

But I don't see how that is relevant here because this thing is based on Linux and X11.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#93

Post by tmzt »

rbanffy wrote: post #86
baybal2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> XFCE, GNOME and KDE make heavy use of DBUS. Only for IPC. There is no IPC within a typical glib app. GObject keeps working flawlessly, but it is too arcane to newcomers (which are already few because of C itself becoming an arcane art these days)

> GObject keeps working flawlessly, but it is too arcane to newcomers (which are already few because of C itself becoming an arcane art these days) I keep looking for a good excuse to learn Vala. Maybe this is it.

You may also consider doing it in Rust.

It's possible to implement GObject subclasses in Rust which little additional overhead as compared to doing it in C, but you get the syntactical niceties of for each loops, traits, and other features of Rust.

librsvg makes good use of these bindings, and is undergoing a rewrite in Rust. Gstreamer bindings are also becoming more complete, and example implementations of many of the standard plugins have been rewritten. The official implementation is still in C though.

Vala is a neat concept though and a pretty clean language.

https://people.gnome.org/~federico/blog/librsvg-gobject-in-r...

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/gstreamer/gst-plugins-rs

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#94

Post by jcranmer »

baybal2 wrote: post #63
pjmlp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Component architecture is everywhere on the desktops, just not on those using UNIX text terminals. COM has been the underlying driving technology of Windows since Vista, where the Windows team took the Longhorn .NET ideas and redid them with COM, since then we got COM improved as WinRT/UWP. Which despite the common mix with the store (blame marketing teams), is what to this day most Windows 10 APIs make use of, and n…

> XFCE, GNOME and KDE make heavy use of DBUS. Only for IPC. There is no IPC within a typical glib app. GObject keeps working flawlessly, but it is too arcane to newcomers (which are already few because of C itself becoming an arcane art these days)

> There is no IPC within a typical glib app.

Except for anything to do with the UI, although admittedly, the details of this is usually hidden within the relevant libraries.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#95

Post by [deleted] »

nmcain wrote: post #20
gostsamo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I opened the link. The only thing spoken to my screen reader was "enable accessibility". I pressed the button (it didn't accept space bar, but only enter) and it just announced an empty page. I can't speak to the qualities of the os, but hopefully this won't be the entire a11y experience both on the website and on the os itself if both use flutter.

Yeah, sorry about the performance. We kinda put that together as an impromptu web demo, like the old ubuntu tour. Flutter for the web is super sucky right now, and lacks a lot of things like accessibility and normal text interaction because it is backed by a canvas element. Ideally as Flutter matures we will be able to improve both the performance and accessibility aspect of it.

[deleted]

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#97

Post by hundchenkatze »

legulere wrote: post #76

So is it a Linux Kernel running or a fuchsia Kernel running or something else?

Both / something else?

"dahliaOS provides a fast and stable experience on nearly every computer, from a 2004 desktop tower to the latest generation of mobile notebooks. Our dual kernel approach allows users with new(er) hardware to take advantage of the Zircon Kernel, while maintaining support for older devices using the Linux Kernel."

https://dahliaos.io/#features

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#98

Post by FpUser »

baybal2 wrote: post #84
FpUser wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any other "real world" software can be ugly and can be beautifully written in any language, including C (except ones where being cryptic is by design). Basic C can be picked up in very short time. there is nothing to be frightened about. When I first laid my hands on C I wrote working software (keyboard driver for DOS) in a first day as a learning exercise. Not sure what other than incompetence as a programmers is ca…

> Not sure what other than incompetence as a programmers is causing your expensive PhDs "fright of their lifetime". Memory management, handwritten loops, pointers everywhere, absence of ready made data structures, error handling (or its absence,) epopeia with C strings, sanitizing inputs, and nausea from the slightest smell of SIMD, or basic binary hackery to begin with.

Those are needed for the tasks C was made to handle: complete control over everything being a primary one. If you do not need those tasks you do not need C. And if you do then get used to it.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#99

Post by happymellon »

stragies wrote: post #80
happymellon wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But thats just Flutter, and it can already run on Linux. What is the benefit of Fuchia?

Possibility to (re-)introduce binary_only, closed_source hw driver modules for the fuchsia kernel? And still get to use all the goodie from GPL userland.

When I looked up Fucia and saw that it was Apache licenced, I assumed it was probably because Google are tired of providing back to the community that gave it 99% of the code that it uses. Much easier to do an Apple and take other people's work and not share back when it's not GPL'ed.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#100

Post by AshamedCaptain »

yiyus wrote: post #58
nmcain wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's perfectly understandable, I even feel that I went a little too "slick marketing" with the website, but I have extremely high, maybe even too high goals for the project.

Having high aspirations for your rock band is perfectly fine, but designing the album cover and the poster for the world tour when you only play some covers from other bands is probably not the best way to make yourself a name in the scene. I don't know your project in particular so I don't know if this is what you are doing, but I agree with ploxiln in that it is a general trend nowadays.

> but designing the album cover and the poster for the world tour when you only play some covers from other bands is probably not the best way to make yourself a name in the scene.

I'm not sure it's not. And that's kinda sad...

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