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DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

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Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#81

Post by est31 »

ratww wrote: post #78
est31 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm I misremembered it then. Thanks for pointing this out. My general point still stands though. His initial Linux announcement E-Mail has this line: > It is NOT portable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(. So it wasn't very portable at the start. If you complained about it not being portable to different arches (idk which one…

If anything Linus was extra-humble when announcing it, kind of the opposite of what's going on here. This kind of marketing copy would be appropriate for a mature product, as it is it rubs some people the wrong way.

Startups do the same thing for their first few years. Some companies never drop this attitude. Tesla for example promises a ton of stuff like self driving, or just building proper cars where it doesn't rain inside [0], but they haven't delivered none of the two yet.

Like it or not, people like this kid run the world.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0EgvaKrfIs

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#82

Post by FpUser »

baybal2 wrote: post #68
pjmlp wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I like to bash C, even Microsoft was forced to reconsider their position and latest MSVC now supports C11 and C17, and UNIX kernels won't ever use anything else. So anyone serious about OS development should know it, regardless of their opinion towards the language. As for GObject, there are bindings for almost any relevant language.

You have my solidarity, but I do not see C having a resurgence. Can share horror stories of expensive hires with MSc/PhD degrees, and years of experience having a fright of their lifetime when they see real world C.

Any other "real world" software can be ugly and can be beautifully written in any language, including C (except ones where being cryptic is by design).

Basic C can be picked up in very short time. there is nothing to be frightened about. When I first laid my hands on C I wrote working software (keyboard driver for DOS) in a first day as a learning exercise. Not sure what other than incompetence as a programmers is causing your expensive PhDs "fright of their lifetime".

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#83

Post by baybal2 »

pjmlp wrote: post #79
baybal2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I clearly need people who can do above helloworld level in C. For many places, there are clearly no alternative to C. The humongous open codebase of high quality C code, exceeding every other language, is also not going anywhere. The situation is, shortly speaking, "no alternative to doing it in C, but we cannot do it in C because of some purely non-technical constraint." And the situation is very common I feel. Chip…

Those Java people also need to be at home with the low level concepts, if they are to do any usable work from what is coming from Panama. Likewise those Webdevs might just brush up their skills for WebAssembly. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if one is using D, Rust, Swift, Java, C#, Rust, C++, Zig, FreePascal, CUDA, Open... instead of C. The system programming concepts are the same, and it all boils down to…

Can't say them not knowing them at all, or them being outright lousy.

When it come to CS fundamentals, algorithmics, most were better than me, who never studied CS academically. This was the reason we ever took interest in them.

It's just you cannot compensate for training, and experience with overall feel of skill. You can hire an ACM olympian, and the guy will still loose it unless he did C professionally for 3-4 years.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#84

Post by baybal2 »

FpUser wrote: post #82
baybal2 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have my solidarity, but I do not see C having a resurgence. Can share horror stories of expensive hires with MSc/PhD degrees, and years of experience having a fright of their lifetime when they see real world C.

Any other "real world" software can be ugly and can be beautifully written in any language, including C (except ones where being cryptic is by design). Basic C can be picked up in very short time. there is nothing to be frightened about. When I first laid my hands on C I wrote working software (keyboard driver for DOS) in a first day as a learning exercise. Not sure what other than incompetence as a programmers is ca…

> Not sure what other than incompetence as a programmers is causing your expensive PhDs "fright of their lifetime".

Memory management, handwritten loops, pointers everywhere, absence of ready made data structures, error handling (or its absence,) epopeia with C strings, sanitizing inputs, and nausea from the slightest smell of SIMD, or basic binary hackery to begin with.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#86

Post by rbanffy »

baybal2 wrote: post #63
pjmlp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Component architecture is everywhere on the desktops, just not on those using UNIX text terminals. COM has been the underlying driving technology of Windows since Vista, where the Windows team took the Longhorn .NET ideas and redid them with COM, since then we got COM improved as WinRT/UWP. Which despite the common mix with the store (blame marketing teams), is what to this day most Windows 10 APIs make use of, and n…

> XFCE, GNOME and KDE make heavy use of DBUS. Only for IPC. There is no IPC within a typical glib app. GObject keeps working flawlessly, but it is too arcane to newcomers (which are already few because of C itself becoming an arcane art these days)

> GObject keeps working flawlessly, but it is too arcane to newcomers (which are already few because of C itself becoming an arcane art these days)

I keep looking for a good excuse to learn Vala. Maybe this is it.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#87

Post by pjmlp »

baybal2 wrote: post #83
pjmlp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those Java people also need to be at home with the low level concepts, if they are to do any usable work from what is coming from Panama. Likewise those Webdevs might just brush up their skills for WebAssembly. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if one is using D, Rust, Swift, Java, C#, Rust, C++, Zig, FreePascal, CUDA, Open... instead of C. The system programming concepts are the same, and it all boils down to…

Can't say them not knowing them at all, or them being outright lousy. When it come to CS fundamentals, algorithmics, most were better than me, who never studied CS academically. This was the reason we ever took interest in them. It's just you cannot compensate for training, and experience with overall feel of skill. You can hire an ACM olympian, and the guy will still loose it unless he did C professionally for 3-4 y…

In my engineering degree doing stuff like B-Trees with its own i-node management module in C, validate against unit tests written by the professor, were requirements just to qualify for the data structures exam.

Someone lousy in low level coding won't go through such a curriculum,

https://www.di.fct.unl.pt/en/education/integrated-master-com...

Again, a matter of teaching quality.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#88

Post by pjmlp »

pjmlp wrote: post #73
mathw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gRPC is not a CORBA equivalent though. Was CORBA ever intended for APIs operating over IP networks?

Yes, naturally. How do you think we were using it in the 2000?

For those that don´t know it, IIOP.

http://panuganty.tripod.com/articles/iiop.htm

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#89

Post by yiyus »

pessimizer wrote: post #64
yiyus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having high aspirations for your rock band is perfectly fine, but designing the album cover and the poster for the world tour when you only play some covers from other bands is probably not the best way to make yourself a name in the scene. I don't know your project in particular so I don't know if this is what you are doing, but I agree with ploxiln in that it is a general trend nowadays.

The criticism about programming projects is good, but do not take this advice for your band.

Hahahaha. Fair enough.
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