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Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

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Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#271

Post by TwoBit »

bleepblorp wrote: post #247
TwoBit wrote: post #208

That's not what bricking means. Bricking means -permanent- disablement.

That's an overly pedantic definition of bricking. The car's in state where is is unusable without intervention from the manufacturer. There's no technical difference between this an a 'bricked' motherboard, cell phone, or other piece of consumer electronics: the hardware is not destroyed, but it's unusable unless the manufacturer is willing to fix it. The only difference between this bricked Ferrari and a phone brick…

If establishing a connection to the manufacturer is all that's needed to restore the car (which was the case), there's no way that is bricking. That's like saying my Amazon Alexa is bricked when my wifi goes down.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#272

Post by Faark »

umvi wrote: post #172
lozaning wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fact that the manufacturer can remote into their cars, does not automatically mean that the car is vulnerable to remote hacking If your car can connect to the internet it's vulnerable to hacking via the internet. My car, which is incapable of connecting to the internet suffers no such potential for abuse.

Theoretically if the systems are properly decoupled and airgapped than the hacking surface area should be quite low. You might be able to hijack the music coming through the speakers, but you should never be able to control the brakes over the internet. In real life is that what actually happens? Sadly, no. Car companies seem to make a lot of bone-headed systems engineering design decisions (such as having a computer…

> Theoretically if the systems are properly decoupled and airgapped than the hacking surface area should be quite low.

Since an over the air update is supposed to improve your 0 to 60 times, pretty much all systems must allow to be updated and thus hardly can be airgapped.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#273

Post by Tade0 »

encypruon wrote: post #243
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone wondering, assuming linear acceleration that's roughly 1 g. In a rear-facing seat, that's 1 g eyeballs-out, which should still be perfectly safe for the child, but possibly not for the cleanliness of the seat.

...and if you're wondering what 1g eyeballs out feels like, you can always try looking at your feet.

Shouldn't it be actually ~1.4142g at a 45 degree angle?

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#274

Post by tylerhou »

justinclift wrote: post #181
gambiting wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I don't disagree with you, it's a problem - but I can guarantee that more Ferrari customers are affected by someone trying to steal their car than there are Ferrari customers driving through an unpopulated desert with no phone signal(and trying to do roadside repair). It's just a question of probabilities, and the first issue seems more important to solve. Besides, I think there's a certain fundamental misunder…

> but I'm certain it's also possible in-person with some kind of key/button input or some diagnostic device. Seems like you're giving Ferrari too much credit, as the engineer they sent out wasn't able to get it working (eg in-person). The car needed to be towed (back to Ferrari I guess).

The engineer was not able to get it working because they allegedly forgot a tool.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#275

Post by bborud »

toyg wrote: post #235
bborud wrote: post #223

If you ever find yourself wanting a Ferrari, head over to your friendly neighborhood exotics workshop and have a look at the cars that come in. "Quality" isn't a word I'd use around a Ferrari.

It’s not like McLarens et al have much of a rep on reliability either; that’s not the point of these cars. These cars are built to give you a fun ride for a few hours at the weekend (at best) or just to look good (at worst). Inbetween stints, they need lots of care. It’s like F1 cars: they’re built to go around very-well-maintained circuits a few weekends a year, but they wouldn’t survive two days on the average city…

Actually, if you want a supercar that is engineered to more rigid standards, there is a factory about a 30 minute drive from the Ferrari factory in San Cesario sul Panaro that builds hypercars.

And do drop by a garage that does exotics. Some of the things you will see there is really no excuse for. It is just terribly bad engineering. Don't make excuses for bad engineering, because at those prices and with that kind of customer service, there are none.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#276

Post by phyzome »

LeonM wrote: post #70

A lot of readers here, and on Reddit seem to be misunderstanding the situation. The way I understand it, this car was taken in by a garage for 'seat installation'. I presume this means after market seats. The car disabled itself during installation. The OP assumed due to an anti-temper device, but it could have been any failure mode. Most modern cars with airbags will have sensors in the seats to disable some of the…

> So it is no surprise that any type of work on the seats puts this system in an error state.

It's only not surprising if you already know a ton about cars, which is a terrible definition of "surprising" to use here.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#277

Post by bee_rider »

hurxnid wrote: post #201
jankiehodgpodge wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence for that? I know that for example women are more likely to be injured in car crashes because most car seats/interiors are designed around the average man so if be surprised if a human half didn't need to be raised or put in a safer position.

Don’t men get in more accidents?

Yes, because seatbelts are so effective for us, it turns out there is no selective pressure avoid car crashes.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#278

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #175
jessaustin wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know about the mass of this particular car, but I once started an Integra with a dead battery by "skateboarding" it: pushing with the driver's door open and then scooting in to throw it into third once I had enough momentum.

I once came across a couple of people trying to do that with their car on my way home from the pub. Problem was neither of them had any clue how to do it properly. I jumped into the drivers seat and had it running a few moments later. Only a little while later did it occur to me that what I did was probably illegal in at least 3 different ways.

If it makes you feel any better, a strange woman talked me into climbing into her van at 2AM through an open window to open the door because she had locked the keys inside.

In my defense, I did ask the gas station attendant if he thought it was her car...

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#279

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #81
callamdelaney wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with gambiting. Yeah, it sucks, but just tow your car outside and turn it on again. These things exist for a reason. If it had really been stolen, and there was the work around of 'oh, there's no signal so we'll let the car start and drive off' - then a thief could permanently jam that signal, or remove the electronic device responsible for receiving that signal. E.g, it's not perfect but it is secure.

Just tow your car outside sounds like a recipe for losing half a day trying to organise that. Additionally, even average cars these days tend to have removable towing eyes with easily damaged plastic blanking plugs. The chance of damaging an expensive car doing this seems very high. Especially trying to drag it out of an underground car park. If I owned a towing company I'd take a hard pass on that job.

Towing company probably has a truck with wheel dollies. I think most of them have them these days.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#280

Post by jedimastert »

mannykannot wrote: post #19
PJDK wrote: post #12

Reading through it seems like people are misinterpreting this. By my reading the car has an anti-theft device that was triggered by the installation of seats. There is a remote system to override the anti-theft device, but that doesn't work because it requires mobile reception. It's kind of funny, but this doesn't really tell you anything about the dangers of "smart cars" or anything.

It tells us that the people who are designing these things are not considering some of the most basic issues.

Not necessarily. Let's consider this for a second.

Having some kind of backup would probably be easier than breaking whatever encryption they're using, and something like this would be a "weakest link" scenario, so anything you put would probably decrease in security.

Besides that, don't really want something a technician can just bring to you, because anything like that can be stolen or sold, so you were probably gonna have to tow it anyways.

I have no clue if that's anywhere close to the actual decisions, but it's not super hard to come up with a thought process that leads to the conclusion that the possible inconvenience of being even more stuck than usual when your car is stolen in a place where you don't have cell service is better than the security reduction of having a backup anti-anti-theft mechanism

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