It's strange how so many in the US have adopted the mindset that it's important, for national security, to deny its citizens access to foreign social networks. Previously, when China did the same, this was widely viewed as an unfortunate restriction their freedoms -- the actions of an intrusive, authoritarian government. Now that the US is itself considering doing the same, many in the west have suddenly adopted the…
The US is a democratic government with the rule of law, as seen in this very example with a judge blocking the order.
Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores
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Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
US companies operating in China need to follow Chinese laws, including those on censorship. Google etc are blocked because they are hosted outside China, and are not willing to cooperate in China. What I find bizarre about the Tiktok ban is that they are being banned essentially on executive whim: as far as I can tell, there are no concrete allegations, much less evidence, that they're violating any US laws.
So, it's ok for China to ban Google because Google refuses to help with censorship and propaganda, and because Google doesn't want the Chinese govt to be able to spy on its citizens. But it's not OK for the US to keep out spyware. Heck, retaliation for China's banning of Google etc would be sufficient justification for banning TikTok on its own.
If US wants to retaliate China by becoming more China, well, surely China isn’t the only one getting hurt.
Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores
#273Something revealed in the recent court filings was how Bytedance spent over $1 billion in advertising on Facebook/Instagram, YouTube, and Snapchat. Apparently they were spending $10-$30 to acquire an active user and expecting to generate $5 of revenue per user in the US, implying a revenue payback period of 2-6 years. Some ugly unit economics.
It's a tool of the government, not a company. It's not meant to make money.
At least we know what Facebook et al are up to (wrt the US government) thanks to the Snowden leaks.
Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores
#274Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores
#275Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…
Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t really know where I stand on the issue, but it is fairly clear how this is a potentially serious threat to national security. Maybe a better solution is allowing the us government unfettered access to source code, algorithms, data collection, etc. Edit - it seems reasonable that if a private company is able to massively influence the countries politics they should be scrutinized more closely. IMO it’s like ha…
if it's a clear threat, the government should have no problem explaining what exactly the threat is. It seems plausible to me that there is a national security threat, but i'm bothered by the government being able to invoke national security as a set of magic words that excuse them from explaining anything further.
It's pretty obvious: TikTok could be a potent propaganda tool, and in a time of increasing geopolitical tensions, you don't hand an adversary nation potential weapons like that. Also, Chinese intelligence is interested in collecting information on Americans (and others) that an app like TikTok could provide. For instance:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/11/us/politics/trump-china-t...
> WASHINGTON — The cyberattack on the Marriott hotel chain that collected personal details of roughly 500 million guests was part of a Chinese intelligence-gathering effort that also hacked health insurers and the security clearance files of millions more Americans, according to two people briefed on the investigation....
> Such information is exactly what the Chinese use to root out spies, recruit intelligence agents and build a rich repository of Americans’ personal data for future targeting. With those details and more that were stolen from insurers like Anthem, the Marriott data adds another critical element to the intelligence profile: travel habits.
> James A. Lewis, a cybersecurity expert at the Center for Strategic Studies in Washington, said the Chinese have collected “huge pots of data” to feed a Ministry of State Security database seeking to identify American spies — and the Chinese people talking to them.
> “Big data is the new wave for counterintelligence,” Mr. Lewis said.
Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they successfully do that then isn't that in fact the exact democracy working as it should? If you turn it around, you are endorsing the US government cutting off free speech specifically to manipulate people's voting opinions towards its own perception of what is "good". That seems almost exactly the opposite of the spirit of the constitution. Perhaps an appropriate response here would be to detect this manipulat…
I don't think the problem is that if/when it happens, it will be "undetectable". The issue is that if we have a polarized party-over-country political environment (which we do currently have), there is absolutely no guarantee a) that there will be a consensus about that the problem is real, that it matters, and that it should be addressed, b) that the party in power doesn't stand to benefit from interference and ther…
Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores
#278Rather than blocking a single app, they should bring in GDPR style laws that make apps like tiktok banned by default unless they change to be strongly privacy protecting.
Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
US companies operating in China need to follow Chinese laws, including those on censorship. Google etc are blocked because they are hosted outside China, and are not willing to cooperate in China. What I find bizarre about the Tiktok ban is that they are being banned essentially on executive whim: as far as I can tell, there are no concrete allegations, much less evidence, that they're violating any US laws.
So, it's ok for China to ban Google because Google refuses to help with censorship and propaganda, and because Google doesn't want the Chinese govt to be able to spy on its citizens. But it's not OK for the US to keep out spyware. Heck, retaliation for China's banning of Google etc would be sufficient justification for banning TikTok on its own.
The issue isn’t a tit-for-tat they block, we block issue, with the US and China acting like playground children.
The issue is whether or not the rule-of-law still means anything in the US. Have the executive block things pretty much arbitrarily undermines the rule-of-law.
If the US wants to block Chinese companies, then pass laws in congress to do so. Don’t let your executive do an end run around your democratic process.