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Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

reuters.com

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Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#71

Post by notatoad »

soared wrote: post #63
zmmmmm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue Are you uncomfortable adopting that belief with literally no concrete evidence that anything of the sort is actually occurring? I don't know how you reconcile rule of law with such drastic interventions in the rights of companies without evidence of wrongdoing. If anything you can come up with in your most paranoid fantasies can be the basis of shutting down a…

Devils advocate - there is no evidence that it isn’t already occurring in subtle ways. Russia’s strategy is sowing discord, which would be fairly easy if one government controls the algorithm deciding what media the other country’s citizens sees.

so is just saying the words "national security" enough for you to believe that this is justified? should the US government be allowed to block any private company from doing business just by saying those magic words, with no further justification? or just any foreign-owned company? or just any chinese company - if it's china, what makes china special?

there's got to be some limitation on where you draw the line on the government exercising this absolute and arbitrary power, i'm curious where exactly it is. could they shut down twitter for national security reasons? what about shopify - they're canadian, and the government is already levying tariffs against canadian imports for national security reasons, so the national security threat is already justified. should they be able to ban shopify with no concrete justification beyond claiming it's a vague threat to national security?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#72

Post by MattGaiser »

zmmmmm wrote: post #51
localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

> Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue Are you uncomfortable adopting that belief with literally no concrete evidence that anything of the sort is actually occurring? I don't know how you reconcile rule of law with such drastic interventions in the rights of companies without evidence of wrongdoing. If anything you can come up with in your most paranoid fantasies can be the basis of shutting down a…

In a country without any constraints on government behavior or rule of law beyond whatever the CCP decrees, Chinese entities have to be treated as organs of the Chinese Communist Party.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/05/huawei-would-have-to-give-da...

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#73

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

crumbshot wrote: post #55
schoolornot wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the national security risk with TikTok?

I reckon it was probably just this: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/21/style/tiktok-trump-rally-...

You may be right (and the publicity alone would be sufficcient for this thin-skinned lunatic), but... doesn't that story rest on somewhat tenuous logic?

I. e. they claim to have reserved far more tickets than capacity would allow to attend. But that seems to demonstrate that tickets weren't limited by capacity. So how did their action prevent other people from getting tickets?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#74

Post by soared »

dvtrn wrote: post #69
soared wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devils advocate - there is no evidence that it isn’t already occurring in subtle ways. Russia’s strategy is sowing discord, which would be fairly easy if one government controls the algorithm deciding what media the other country’s citizens sees.

Devils advocate - there is no evidence that it isn’t already occurring in subtle ways. This isn’t playing the “devil’s advocate” (which-the devil here does not need any advocacy) this is a request to prove a potential negative. Can we please retire the tactic of giving the devil representation in such a blatant and cavalier fashion?

Language adapts to common use, common use doesn’t adapt to linguistic rules. But I see your point.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#75

Post by pastaking »

libraryatnight wrote: post #42
schoolornot wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the national security risk with TikTok?

Propaganda. You don't have to bother making troll farm accounts to spread misinformation and sow doubt when you control the platform and can create and drip content you want into peoples feeds, and you know what they like, you're already serving them an addictive stream of content based on their behaviors.

Wouldn’t this be better handled by a more sophisticated solution like some kind of law or governance organization? Banning specific apps is like whack a mole. There will also be other countries with opposing ideological beliefs - we probably shouldn’t want to play whack a mole country by country either.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#76

Post by [deleted] »

revnode wrote: post #62
zmmmmm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue Are you uncomfortable adopting that belief with literally no concrete evidence that anything of the sort is actually occurring? I don't know how you reconcile rule of law with such drastic interventions in the rights of companies without evidence of wrongdoing. If anything you can come up with in your most paranoid fantasies can be the basis of shutting down a…

> shutting down a company It's not a company. It's a division of a foreign government. That was the point being made. If it was an independent company, none of this would be happening.

[deleted]

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#77

Post by rgbrenner »

sheeshkebab wrote: post #54
mike503 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ll know all the social media patterns and likes of 14 year olds!

An incident in 2020 where TikTok users apparently tanked some Trump campaign rally probably is a bit more practical preview what controlling recommendations and likes could let CCP do (eventually... if they were not involved this time around) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/21/style/tiktok-trump-rally-...

I went to an Obama rally when he was running and just showed up.. no tickets. Got all the way to the front of the crowd. Another option is to charge a nominal fee for a ticket.

Trump's problem was that he wanted to hand out free tickets over the internet. Just don't do that.. problem solved.

If that's the limit of TikTok's power.. then I think we're going to be ok.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#78

Post by philliphaydon »

DLay wrote: post #27

Something revealed in the recent court filings was how Bytedance spent over $1 billion in advertising on Facebook/Instagram, YouTube, and Snapchat. Apparently they were spending $10-$30 to acquire an active user and expecting to generate $5 of revenue per user in the US, implying a revenue payback period of 2-6 years. Some ugly unit economics.

Think it involves TV adverts too.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#79

Post by th33ngineer »

localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

Why would TikTok agree to a preliminary American takeover and transfer of all assets to American entities if they are taking directives from the CCP? If this were true I would expect them to fight tooth and nail against a deal with the likes of Oracle and Wal-Mart rather than champion it as they have been doing.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#80

Post by soared »

notatoad wrote: post #71
soared wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devils advocate - there is no evidence that it isn’t already occurring in subtle ways. Russia’s strategy is sowing discord, which would be fairly easy if one government controls the algorithm deciding what media the other country’s citizens sees.

so is just saying the words "national security" enough for you to believe that this is justified? should the US government be allowed to block any private company from doing business just by saying those magic words, with no further justification? or just any foreign-owned company? or just any chinese company - if it's china, what makes china special? there's got to be some limitation on where you draw the line on th…

I don’t really know where I stand on the issue, but it is fairly clear how this is a potentially serious threat to national security.

Maybe a better solution is allowing the us government unfettered access to source code, algorithms, data collection, etc.

Edit - it seems reasonable that if a private company is able to massively influence the countries politics they should be scrutinized more closely. IMO it’s like have 1 national newspaper, but it’s a social platform rather than newspaper.

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