Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#121

Post by xwolfi » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 1:56 AM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #108

localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

Can you point out in the article or describe what you feel is the actual, explicit issue? I read the article, and I didn’t catch any concrete description of why TikTok is dangerous aside from the typically general descriptions, or at a minimum, how TikTok is any different from Facebook or YouTube or Twitter Instagram or whatever else, all of which have essentially black box recommendation algorithms. The article neve…

I'm in China and I did stop using facebook because it felt like a stupid data sinkhole from an hostile power...

I agree it's a bit paranoid to block Tik Tok, but maybe if these company found a business model that didn't require my name, age, graph of all my acquaitance and pictures of all of this, maybe that would be better for the worlds ? Maybe we SHOULD ban social media on the principle that the risk of abuse outweighs any advantage ?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#122

Post by bigpumpkin » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 1:57 AM UTC

localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

If you follow the case, you'll see that the Commerce Department does invoke national security in the case. However, the ban violates the First Amendment of the Constitution because it is not narrowly tailored to address the national security concerns.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#123

Post by bamboozled » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 1:57 AM UTC

pastaking wrote: post #75

libraryatnight wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda. You don't have to bother making troll farm accounts to spread misinformation and sow doubt when you control the platform and can create and drip content you want into peoples feeds, and you know what they like, you're already serving them an addictive stream of content based on their behaviors.

Wouldn’t this be better handled by a more sophisticated solution like some kind of law or governance organization? Banning specific apps is like whack a mole. There will also be other countries with opposing ideological beliefs - we probably shouldn’t want to play whack a mole country by country either.

This is my sentiment, is it's TikTok, it will be rebranded as DikDok next, then what? We block one app at a time?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#124

Post by ekianjo » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 1:58 AM UTC

schoolornot wrote: post #30

localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

What exactly is the national security risk with TikTok?

What exactly is the risk of a single channel of information controlled by one of the worst governments on Earth, massively used by younger people who are in the age of voting?

Are you sure you need an explanation?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#125

Post by arcticbull » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 1:58 AM UTC

homptydompty18 wrote: post #85

zmmmmm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue Are you uncomfortable adopting that belief with literally no concrete evidence that anything of the sort is actually occurring? I don't know how you reconcile rule of law with such drastic interventions in the rights of companies without evidence of wrongdoing. If anything you can come up with in your most paranoid fantasies can be the basis of shutting down a…

Uh, welcome to international politics? Every country on Earth gives its executive some discretion when dealing with foreign powers. The idea that TikTok should have the same due process rights as American corporations is naive (putting it mildly).

Nobody's saying the Americans can't do it.

What I'm saying is it's largely hypocritical -- telling China they need to open up their markets to foreign businesses from America just the way Americans do for foreign entities, and then once a Chinese company becomes successful enough to garner the slightest bit of attention forcing a sale to an American company. It's exactly the thing America has been accusing China of doing for mandatory joint ventures.

They can do it, by all means, however it further erodes the brand value of America on the world stage as "open for business."

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#126

Post by dilap » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 1:59 AM UTC

It's strange how so many in the US have adopted the mindset that it's important, for national security, to deny its citizens access to foreign social networks.

Previously, when China did the same, this was widely viewed as an unfortunate restriction their freedoms -- the actions of an intrusive, authoritarian government.

Now that the US is itself considering doing the same, many in the west have suddenly adopted the attitude that China had it right all along.

Very surprising!

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#127

Post by drak0n1c » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:01 AM UTC

UncleMeat wrote: post #46

libraryatnight wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda. You don't have to bother making troll farm accounts to spread misinformation and sow doubt when you control the platform and can create and drip content you want into peoples feeds, and you know what they like, you're already serving them an addictive stream of content based on their behaviors.

What makes TikTok different than literally any other website in this manner?

Deliberately curated recommendation algorithms to maximize negative perceptions could conceivably be worse than those that do such accidentally.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#128

Post by bduerst » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:01 AM UTC

senkora wrote: post #82

DLay wrote: post #27

Something revealed in the recent court filings was how Bytedance spent over $1 billion in advertising on Facebook/Instagram, YouTube, and Snapchat. Apparently they were spending $10-$30 to acquire an active user and expecting to generate $5 of revenue per user in the US, implying a revenue payback period of 2-6 years. Some ugly unit economics.

That’s probably fine for a growth product. They’ll increase monetization once the network effect is well-established.

Yeah, a $30 CPA isn't anything suspicious when there's upsell to a $20/mo subscription.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#129

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:03 AM UTC

alacombe wrote: post #116

DLay wrote: post #27

Something revealed in the recent court filings was how Bytedance spent over $1 billion in advertising on Facebook/Instagram, YouTube, and Snapchat. Apparently they were spending $10-$30 to acquire an active user and expecting to generate $5 of revenue per user in the US, implying a revenue payback period of 2-6 years. Some ugly unit economics.

> Some ugly unit economics. Cash coming from the CCP is pretty much infinite, especially given the massive US trade deficit.

[deleted]

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#130

Post by zmmmmm » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:03 AM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #101

zmmmmm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue Are you uncomfortable adopting that belief with literally no concrete evidence that anything of the sort is actually occurring? I don't know how you reconcile rule of law with such drastic interventions in the rights of companies without evidence of wrongdoing. If anything you can come up with in your most paranoid fantasies can be the basis of shutting down a…

Any business with china is a national security issue. There's plenty of evidence to the level of dictatorship in China. It's your responsibility to look at its history and make reasonable conclusions from it. If you want some sort of smoking gun evidence you're not going to find it, unless you somehow have a security clearance in China good enough to gain knowledge about their operations. It's a Chinese company, they…

I guess at minimum I'd expect a non-partisan investigation to substantiate that, and then for it to be applied on an equal basis to all companies with similar issues. Some element of the first may have, but I have no awareness of the second part.