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Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

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Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#101
post #51

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

> Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue Are you uncomfortable adopting that belief with literally no concrete evidence that anything of the sort is actually occurring? I don't know how you reconcile rule of law with such drastic interventions in the rights of companies without evidence of wrongdoing. If anything you can come up with in your most paranoid fantasies can be the basis of shutting down a…

Any business with china is a national security issue. There's plenty of evidence to the level of dictatorship in China. It's your responsibility to look at its history and make reasonable conclusions from it. If you want some sort of smoking gun evidence you're not going to find it, unless you somehow have a security clearance in China good enough to gain knowledge about their operations.

It's a Chinese company, they have privledges, not rights.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a country without any constraints on government behavior or rule of law beyond whatever the CCP decrees, Chinese entities have to be treated as organs of the Chinese Communist Party. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/05/huawei-would-have-to-give-da...

"Government", "administration", and "party" are all the same thing in China. So something like: "Huawei would be forced to hand over 5G data to the Chinese government if it was asked for it, because of national security laws, experts told CNBC." ...is really no different from the US, is it? And while China has lots of problems, citing a lack of "rule of law" in this context is rather brave. Also: if you believe every…

> ...is really no different from the US, is it?

It is enormously different in that it is judicially reviewable (if not in need of an outright warrant) and the USA is a country where there are limits on government. This post, specifically the "judge temporarily blocks" is proof that the USA is a fundamentally different country.

> Also: if you believe everything called "communist party" is "communist", you definitely have to pay the beer at the next "RePUBlican Party" meeting.

I have not commented on communism as a general topic at all. I am specifically talking about the entity named the Chinese Communist Party.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#103

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

>The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict

Your linked position is that this is basically an ideological war, and that China won't quit until it has destroyed "liberalism." So why are you advocating the destruction of a key aspect of liberalism, the right to the free spread of ideas?

This reeks of classic red scare techniques. Those damn Chinese are more concerned with destroying our way of life than internal affairs, and we must abandon our values to stop the risk.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#104
post #32

It's a national security issue. Plus, if you sue the government order from any courts in CA, you will win anyways these days. CA is too liberal to remain in US, I remember they were saying CA-Independence from USA after 2016, I can't wait to support it, but those people somehow did not proceed, very disappointed.

I don't think most Americans would be too keen to forfeit 15% of the country's GDP [1] to own the libs. [1] https://www.statista.com/chart/9358/us-gdp-by-state-and-regi...

Have you heard of "Brexit"?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#105
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really know where I stand on the issue, but it is fairly clear how this is a potentially serious threat to national security. Maybe a better solution is allowing the us government unfettered access to source code, algorithms, data collection, etc. Edit - it seems reasonable that if a private company is able to massively influence the countries politics they should be scrutinized more closely. IMO it’s like ha…

"but it is fairly clear how this is a potentially serious threat to national security." Yeah... the Chinese could, like, get the inside scoop on some serious teen drama.

They decide what content is viewed by millions of teens who will be voting in a few years. It’s not that far fetched to show them more violent content / mildly biased content / etc in order to move their political views a bit.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#106
post #51

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

> Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue Are you uncomfortable adopting that belief with literally no concrete evidence that anything of the sort is actually occurring? I don't know how you reconcile rule of law with such drastic interventions in the rights of companies without evidence of wrongdoing. If anything you can come up with in your most paranoid fantasies can be the basis of shutting down a…

This whole shift to China as the new "enemy" is fascinating. Even though Trump is more or less mental, and is recognised as such, he has somehow managed to whip up this new cold war frenzy even among his opponents in the media. I can barely remember any focus on China before Trump. Not saying that there shouldn't be any but it's still interesting how this can spread to the entire country even if the author is an untrustworthy demagogue.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#107

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

Not at all, it’s financial only. TikTok is the only non-US owned social media platform to make a dent here.

Edit: Why did I think Instagram didn’t start in the US?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#108

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

Can you point out in the article or describe what you feel is the actual, explicit issue? I read the article, and I didn’t catch any concrete description of why TikTok is dangerous aside from the typically general descriptions, or at a minimum, how TikTok is any different from Facebook or YouTube or Twitter Instagram or whatever else, all of which have essentially black box recommendation algorithms.

The article never hones in on anything specific to TikTok or makes a claim. From what I can tell, the two potential issues are concern of data collection with what that feeds and then a concept of influence.

The former feeds a learning algorithm that shows what people find entertaining, funny, interesting. Could this be weaponized? Potentially. My best guess how is that it simply shows what people in various regions like and dislike, providing food for propaganda and policies. So the app is just a vacuum that feeds some external process that may or may not feedback through the app. No doubt this very thing with Facebook’s data was weaponized in the 2016 U.S. election by Cambridge Analytica and other entities.

The latter possibility is one of influence. However, I do not see how TikTok is unique in this. In a different timeline, Facebook or Twitter or a multitude of other sites could have easily been used to hijack the rally, so that example is weak. If anything, the example is damning since there is a large possibility that Trump’s war on TikTok is one of personal vendetta that has been hypernormalized in the context of actual concerns between the U.S. and China and general concerns of the influence of social media. Further, there is factual evidence of Facebook being weaponized by organized groups to start protests and riots and people being influenced by foreign efforts.

From my stance, the question is why is just TikTok a concern? If it is a legitimate concern, which it probably is at least in theory, then these same concerns apply to other social networks. The other question is where does this all stop?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#109
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so is just saying the words "national security" enough for you to believe that this is justified? should the US government be allowed to block any private company from doing business just by saying those magic words, with no further justification? or just any foreign-owned company? or just any chinese company - if it's china, what makes china special? there's got to be some limitation on where you draw the line on th…

I don’t really know where I stand on the issue, but it is fairly clear how this is a potentially serious threat to national security. Maybe a better solution is allowing the us government unfettered access to source code, algorithms, data collection, etc. Edit - it seems reasonable that if a private company is able to massively influence the countries politics they should be scrutinized more closely. IMO it’s like ha…

if it's a clear threat, the government should have no problem explaining what exactly the threat is. It seems plausible to me that there is a national security threat, but i'm bothered by the government being able to invoke national security as a set of magic words that excuse them from explaining anything further.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#110
post #106
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue Are you uncomfortable adopting that belief with literally no concrete evidence that anything of the sort is actually occurring? I don't know how you reconcile rule of law with such drastic interventions in the rights of companies without evidence of wrongdoing. If anything you can come up with in your most paranoid fantasies can be the basis of shutting down a…

This whole shift to China as the new "enemy" is fascinating. Even though Trump is more or less mental, and is recognised as such, he has somehow managed to whip up this new cold war frenzy even among his opponents in the media. I can barely remember any focus on China before Trump. Not saying that there shouldn't be any but it's still interesting how this can spread to the entire country even if the author is an untr…

> I can barely remember any focus on China before Trump.

Maybe not in the mass media, but the new cold war preceded Trump as an issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_foreign_policy_of_t...

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