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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#411

Post by tramav »

GrimRe wrote: post #392
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

>Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. What a ridiculous thing to say. 1) You make it seem like Apple are some capricious God like entity that any moment will completely change the underlying terms and conditions you agreed to when running your business in iOS. Its simply not true. If you remove this one situation with Epic its li…

"Epic flagrantly violated the terms they had previously agreed to"

Epic probably thinks that some conditions are illegal, and therefore void. But that would also mean that Apple broke the contract with Epic when they removed the app from the store.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#412

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh »

mvanbaak wrote: post #296
jbverschoor wrote: post #27

Yeah.. that's really uncool. So I'm all pro-Apple for the whole Epic thing, but by this one action, I will refuse to use sign in with Apple for good. They're basically hijacking users

No, they are not. Epic broke the contract, they were warned, they laughed it off and got their apple developer account terminated. There is no 'login with apple' when the developer account implementing it is terminated. It's one of the services Epic knew was going to be impacted. If anyone is hijacking users, it's Epic.

This is like the mafia asking me to pay up or else they will kidnap my children, and when I refuse to pay up and my children get kidnapped, you tell me "Well this was one of the things you knew was going to happen".

If the demands are unfair or extortionate I don't blame people for not capitulating to them. This the same idea that forms the basis of civil disobedience.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#413

Post by nodamage »

modeless wrote: post #19
RL_Quine wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intentionally breaking the rules and filing a lawsuit against them with a marketing campaign isn't as if apple just decided they "didn't like" Epic.

Epic alleges that Apple is breaking the law, and breaking the App Store rules was a pretty much required step to establish standing to sue. Is Apple above the legal system, such that they should be able to destroy businesses that dare to challenge them in court, regardless of the merits of their claims and before they are even heard?

They already had standing based on the $300 million in IAP fees Apple has collected from Fortnite. They could have simply sued and said "we want our $300 million back". They didn't need to do anything else.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#414

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh »

zxcb1 wrote: post #5

Just installed Linux on my Mac; it felt like freedom.

I wonder by what year it would be impossible at a hardware level to do that. Apple has already been making MacOS more or more like its phone OSes, raising the walls of the garden. They might soon implement some privacy/security 'think-of-the-children' type 'feature' that makes it basically impossible to install any other OS on your Macbook.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#415

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh »

lexusgx wrote: post #343

My gut reaction: it is a win to put the brakes on a virtual currency shop disguised as a video game. Perhaps this is something that needs legislative action. Addictive behaviors that turn people into paypigs for a minimally productive business are harmful.

I don't care about Epic but I welcome this lawsuit. If they win, it will significantly improve the lives of millions of developers and users.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#416

Post by hapticmonkey »

drenvuk wrote: post #260

I don't get why on Hackernews anyone would ever defend Apple here. Regardless of whether they're right to do this if Epic wins their court case against them we stand to gain the most benefit. Apple's incredibly high walled garden is honestly the scariest thing for me. If I develop for windows I can simply distribute my application on my site easily. With Android I can tell people to download from F-Droid if necessary…

Apple's defense is that their walled garden and strict rules are what's stopping their ecosystem from becoming a cesspool of scams or fake or harmful apps. Users (who are not "power users") trust Apple's ecosystem.

The user experience of installing from their app store and using their sign in method is so much better than the experience of installing from the web and signing in via other methods. It frustrates me that the entire industry failed to create a suitable sign-in option and Apple felt they had to step in to create something with good UX while respecting users' privacy.

I'd love for the iOS ecosystem to open up more, but I also know it would be exploited easily and create an industry-wide race-to-the-bottom for UX and privacy.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#417

Post by artche »

labcomputer wrote: post #393
danShumway wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy, they wanted their own store That's the point. This is also what the little guys want. Epic isn't fighting for the little guy, but they are fighting for terms that are mutually beneficial for both Epic and the little guy. For the devs who support Epic in the lawsuit, it's never directly been about the 30% cut. It's about this article, right here -- that Apple requires you to s…

> I understand why people disagree with me Respectfully, it feels like you don't. For example: > I understand why people think that the average consumer might be too stupid to actually own their own hardware and make their own decisions. It's not about stupidity. I like the fact that my 94-year-old grandmother (who isn't stupid, by the way) doesn't have to worry about accidentally downloading malware from the App Sto…

Thank you for summarizing the main benefits of a closed ecosystem. Ive had great relief from setting up my parents with Iphones. Sometimes I feel the FOSS HN crowd is too far removed from what non tech people actually need.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#418

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh »

criddell wrote: post #94
cletus wrote: post #23

So this showdown between Epic and Apple is really interesting. My thoughts: 1. Epic had to know Apple would go nuclear. If they didn't, they're completely incompetent. Let's assume that's not the case. So Epic was itching for a fight. Maybe they were delusional about Fortnite's power here? 2. Apple is going nuclear here. The message is that Apple wants to crush this. This is Apple making an example of Epic. It looks…

> Personally I think for the vast majority of developers the Apple payment ecosystem makes sense. I think if that were true, Apple wouldn't fight this fight. They would find some way to accommodate the giants and keep taking 30% of small developer's paychecks. I think most smaller developers would like the option to choose a different store. They might not use it, but who wouldn't like the option?

They have done something like that in the past. They invented a "Reader" app concept that benefits Amazon, Netflix etc. If you are big enough to basically get a private audience with Tim Cook, you can have your lawyers and their lawyers sit together and come up with the exact magic incantations that will excuse what you are trying to do.

This is nothing but regulatory capture, just happening at a private level.

Meanwhile something like the Hey app has to hope that their complaint gets viral on social media to maybe get a slightly expedited App Review.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#419

Post by fakedang »

ffhhj wrote: post #337
fxtentacle wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but think that the whole thing is playing out exactly like Epic had hoped. After Apple kicked Fortnite from the iOS store, there was an outcry of people who had previously spent money on it through Apple's in-app purchases and now wanted a refund. Some of those users switched to playing Fortnite on a laptop or Android phone instead, but of course they were still using Sign in with Apple if they had origi…

Epic should take advantage of this momentum and launch their own gaming device, with Google/Apple stores saturated as they are, gamedevs like me will welcome it.

So another Stadia?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#420

Post by bhupy »

labcomputer wrote: post #393
danShumway wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy, they wanted their own store That's the point. This is also what the little guys want. Epic isn't fighting for the little guy, but they are fighting for terms that are mutually beneficial for both Epic and the little guy. For the devs who support Epic in the lawsuit, it's never directly been about the 30% cut. It's about this article, right here -- that Apple requires you to s…

> I understand why people disagree with me Respectfully, it feels like you don't. For example: > I understand why people think that the average consumer might be too stupid to actually own their own hardware and make their own decisions. It's not about stupidity. I like the fact that my 94-year-old grandmother (who isn't stupid, by the way) doesn't have to worry about accidentally downloading malware from the App Sto…

This is Apple's strongest argument, particularly from a "consumer welfare" standpoint.
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