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Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

wsj.com

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Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#371

Post by pjmlp »

sunderw wrote: post #341
pjmlp wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then give money to companies that don't offer that model. I have no understanding for anyone that buys Apple and then complains.

There aren't a lot of alternatives in the smartphone space. If you don't like Android, you're stuck with Apple. Now if both are abusing their power, using your reasoning, you're supposed to say and do nothing ?

Yes, just like I don't have a say in what the supermarket around the corner decides to sell, besides taking the effort to go somewhere else.

Or what goes into each game console, my cable provider installs on their set top box, and so on.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#372

Post by wruza »

hnra wrote: post #213
jjcon wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let‘s see how valuable everybody thinks the App Store is when they actually have to pay an access fee directly to Apple They do, it’s called buying an iphone

I bought an iPhone despite the App Store, so I don't think that logic really holds.

We all sometimes buy products that are of partial value for us, but that doesn't break the logic for those who value an entire product. Problems arise only when we try to sit on two different chairs at the same time.

Right now I am experimenting with an android phone, and its hardware is not bad (very good) for its 0.3x price of an actual iphone with similar specs. It also allows all that "control over the device" that everyone wants here. But after an iphone I don't really feel that I'm finally free. It is a constant fight for privacy, for being adfree, for apps that do not abuse permissions and/or "cloudness", etc. I wait for a new iphone because I got nothing out of promises of a freedom that android users around told me with an excitement. It is basically the same brick, but with a jerky scroll and an ability to install ads and low-functional spyware after hours of searching and comparison.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#373

Post by tempodox »

valuearb wrote: post #282
strictnein wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a weird argument too, as if there was a different service Epic could use to reach > 50% of the US mobile market.

iPhones market share is less than 20%.

20% of what? That number doesn't mean anything without context. Also, references?

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#374

Post by vbezhenar »

jbverschoor wrote: post #358
canofbars wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you don't like the App Store, don't use an iPhone This is not the main issue, its on the other end. If you are a developer, and you don't like the App Store, you have no options. You can't publish on an alt store because those are not allowed. So your only option is to not provide services to 50% of your customers and thats assuming the google play store doesn't have the same issue you are avoiding. A real world…

Same for Nintendo, PS, Xbox, Android. And the other 'appstores' - steam, epic, etc Quite frankly, the lockdown of the OS and rejection of this is one of the primary reasons I'm on iPhone.

So you're happy as a consumer that developer's freedom is taken away from them, but you have more freedom. That's understandable, but you should realize that some developers value their freedom and will just avoid such a locked-down platform. There are plenty of apps missing in iPhone because of that.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#375

Post by saagarjha »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #312
cafed00d wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A game deployed to an iPhone could theoretically be acquired through an alternative app store or just direct download This is false; unless theoretically means there's no concept of "money" involved in our world. A game deployed to an iPhone must be compatible with the hardware chip supplied on the iPhone, must be built using APIs designed, built and committed to be supported by the iPhone. Apps can't be built out o…

> > A game deployed to an iPhone could theoretically be acquired through an alternative app store or just direct download. > This is false; unless theoretically means there's no concept of "money" involved in our world. I am fairly sure that Apple has already produced a general purpose computing device that also requires applications deployed to it to be compatible with its CPU and to be built using APIs designed and…

Not only that Apple has produced the exact same platform with the same CPU and development tools and APIs as iPhone which it is set to launch later this year where sideloading is completely allowed.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#376

Post by saagarjha »

threeseed wrote: post #176
jrockway wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter what Epic is doing. Loot boxes, game engines, and game mechanics aren't the issue here. The issue is that I, a user of an iPhone, should be able to install whatever software I want. You know what? I played Fortnite and I hated it. I won't be installing Fortnite or buying any skins for it. But, Epic has the right to offer their product to me without interference. Apple already has $1000 of my…

> I, a user of an iPhone, should be able to install whatever software I want And you can. You just need to bypass Apple's security mechanisms.

You can murder people all you like too, as long as you figure out how to never get caught.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#377

Post by saagarjha »

mehrdada wrote: post #289
threeseed wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I, a user of an iPhone, should be able to install whatever software I want And you can. You just need to bypass Apple's security mechanisms.

You can, without bypassing security mechanisms. Simply acquire a free developer certificate to sign your own binaries. They work for a week but you can re-sign them.

Free developer accounts have more restriction than paid accounts do, which is already nowhere close to “I want to run anything on my device”.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#378

Post by saagarjha »

pjmlp wrote: post #319
pier25 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. From the court documents, Apple said there are 27M AppStore registered devs. Even if only half of those pay $100 per year that's still about $1.3B per year.

Pennies, when compared with console devkit prices.

Surely there are not 27 million console developers?

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#379

Post by mcintyre1994 »

What's the actual theory of the case of how Apple are owed damages here?

Obviously they're losing revenue from Fortnite but that would have happened if Epic just decided they don't like the rules and took the app down themselves instead of breaking them. I can't imagine Apple would be entitled to damages then and I can't see how they've lost more money than that.

The other obvious thing is legal expenses, but you don't throw them in as damages during the case right? That'd be settled based on the result and depending on the jurisdiction.

I guess I can see them getting a few hours of someone's wage for re-reviewing Fortnite after the changes and taking it down?

I feel like I'm probably missing something, does anybody know the actual position Apple would argue for damages from here?

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