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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#951

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has their own set of values - I don't judge your decisions at all in this case. However, to give some perspective, I grew up in a rural/suburban "flyover" town. There are parts of my childhood that I would love my own children to have - running outdoors, opportunities to try things without committing to the (sure, I'll sign up for the baseball team and see what happens), etc But what I realize that I missed…

I grew up in an exburb of what, at the time, was a 3rd rate city so I sort of understand what you went through. That said, it wasn't hard for my family to expose me to big cities via travel. I definitely missed out on college prep, but that was a failure of my family's culture and not something I would blame on my location. I was actually able to rise to the top(state electronics competition) thanks to being a big fi…

That's a fair point.

I think the impact that parents have is much larger than location. Period.

I didn't mean to imply that big city = success, small town = giving up. My apologies if it came across that way

My experience was that my parents didn't have the knowledge to know how to push (not their fault - their parents also didn't have that perspective). In small towns, unless you have parents showing you the world, it is hard to find it on your own

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#952
post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you can afford it doesn't mean it's a good deal, basically. And living in SF with everything shut down is a pretty terrible deal.

Living in any place where everything is shut down is a pretty bad deal, but that's the situation we're in now. Sure, you get a lot more room to yourself at lower prices if you move out of the bay area or out into the woods, but it seems pretty short-sighted to uproot your life for something that will be temporary (even if "temporary" means another year). But I guess some people are only here because they have to be f…

I’d rather live somewhere where petty theft, homelessness, public drug use, and dirtiness are less of an issue and where COL is much lower if they’re both equally as boring.

And good for you! I admittedly don’t have many roots. Most people I know who are leaving are those who were renting and didn’t have kids. I’ve seen rents dropping so I’m sure you can benefit from the exodus as well (if you’re renting). They still haven’t dropped enough for staying to be worth it to me though

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#953

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has their own set of values - I don't judge your decisions at all in this case. However, to give some perspective, I grew up in a rural/suburban "flyover" town. There are parts of my childhood that I would love my own children to have - running outdoors, opportunities to try things without committing to the (sure, I'll sign up for the baseball team and see what happens), etc But what I realize that I missed…

I grew up in an exburb of what, at the time, was a 3rd rate city so I sort of understand what you went through. That said, it wasn't hard for my family to expose me to big cities via travel. I definitely missed out on college prep, but that was a failure of my family's culture and not something I would blame on my location. I was actually able to rise to the top(state electronics competition) thanks to being a big fi…

> I grew up in an exburb of what, at the time, was a 3rd rate city so I sort of understand what you went through. That said, it wasn't hard for my family to expose me to big cities via travel. I definitely missed out on college prep, but that was a failure of my family's culture and not something I would blame on my location. I was actually able to rise to the top(state electronics competition) thanks to being a big fish in a small pond. In most major cities I never would have gotten that far.

Your kids will be living a lonely lifestyle. People don't live in rural areas and still manage to do lots of travel, have a great education, and so forth. Your kids will be the exception... I grew up in smaller towns (4,000 7+ years, 5,000 6+ years, 20,000 3 years) that were 3+ hours from a major city. I had never even visited the city before I was 18 because my parents couldn't afford traveling. I don't think my experience was too uncommon.

And education? Eh - real bad. At least in a major city you have a choice between a few schools and you could theoretically find a nice private school too.

> But what I realize that I missed was the knowledge of how big the world was. I thought going to the local state college was "making it." I didn't understand how the world worked or what was possible. I missed out on opportunities because I didn't realize that I should be looking for them.

This hits it on the head. If you grow up in a region without opportunity, you just don't know that it exists elsewhere.

The biggest problem I had with living in rural areas was the lack of opportunity. I was always taking the most "advanced" classes - but at schools in cities - I found out I was barely keeping up. Even then, many classes weren't offered at my schools because there just wasn't the demand and/or sufficient funding (I went to an unusually poor school district - we only went to school 4 days a week because it was so poor). This translated to a very poor transition to entering a very competitive college and a very competitive city life. I grew up not having to work as hard to compete and then suddenly being wildly underprepared for the global market I was entering where most of the people I was working with were from wealthy families, grew up in major cities, and had a world class education at every stage of their life. It's not like all those people had horrible anxiety either... A lot of them were happy at all stages of their life. The ones with the anxiety I think were like me - ones who had never had this much competition and were feeling so far behind.

Now I'm trying to make it but without all the background built up that would help me succeed. It's a lonely path that I don't know any doing on their own. I know one person from a similar background as mine and in the bay area but if they weren't married to an incredible human being - I don't know if they'd be here. Even then, they struggle and they feel it comes back to their more rural roots.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or, follow me on this. i just walk out onto the street, type "restaurant" into google, and pick something with 4 star and up reviews. no marketing or presentations involved Heh. Reliance on numerical ratings in online reviews isn't particularly different than reliance on marketing with a specific demographic targeting and, yeah, surprisingly enough it does tend to lead you to the more instagram-ready establishments…

right.. when someone eats at a place and gives it a number of stars rating how good it was, it tells you the same about how good it is as instagram marketing. here's the point - you go to sf, get a place around you with good reviews, and the food is overpriced, overpresented, and average in taste. The OP literally stated a reason to live in SF is the food. That's simply false. It's not poor quality, but it's no reaso…

> right.. when someone eats at a place and gives it a number of stars rating how good it was, it tells you the same about how good it is as instagram marketing.

There are distinct demographic trends in online reviews activity that are broadly similar to those involved in instagramming meals, which makes the biases in using aggregate ratings similar to those in favoring Instagram or marketing targeting the same demographic, yes.

(You can get better information from online reviews, but it takes more than blindly following aggregate ratings.)

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#955
post #778

I moved out of SF in March. Not because of the virus, I just had a long-planned move (to London) with interesting timing. Unlike many of my tech peers, I love San Francisco and the Bay Area. It's a beautiful city and surrounded in all directions by even more beautiful places. The food, music, and art scenes are all amazing. Oh and it happens to have near-unlimited job options for my career of choice. The only reason…

> all I could think in my first month in central London was "wow it's so cheap here". I think you're possibly the first and last person to have that thought ;)

One huge difference you notice right away is groceries. Groceries in central London are half price or less what you'd pay in most of SF.

Rent is definitely lower in London.

That said salaries are lower in London too, so the relative "cost of living" may be higher here. I'm still thinking in America Bucks.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#956

Have others noticed this kind of "revolt against cities" attitude lately too? I do wonder if people consider the huge advantages city living can provide? I'm reading constantly that current dream is buying a plot of land in the middle no where, signing up for StarLink and growing watermelons while trying to work a full time engineering job. The thing is though, this is all just a temporary thing, even if this pandemi…

I'm interested in the romantic allure you mention.

I love cities, but I always wonder if the combination of a high speed internet, plenty of space and fresh air, solar electricity, and a good electric car to go to town in weekends, wouldn't be better.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#957
post #827
post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who grew up in NJ about an hour south of Manhattan, that sounds like a living situation that would make me very unhappy as an adult (don't get me wrong; I had a great childhood). But I have some dear friends who lived in San Jose for several years and then ended up moving back to rural South Jersey, so, clearly, to each their own. Even the 25min commute from Hoboken would make me sad. I want to be able to…

>I have some dear friends who lived in San Jose for several years and then ended up moving back to rural South Jersey That's a hell of a jump. What about rural South Jersey appealed to them?

Mostly proximity to extended family, and in general just indifference toward many of the trade offs between city and rural living. Those trade offs matter a lot to me, but not to them.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#959

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My hope is that this will bring down commercial real estate prices down significantly I'm going to predict that this will not happen. More specifically, that it will be unusual in general for rents or prices anywhere to drop any more than 10%. There's something odd going on and my best guess is that there are (a) accounting/tax practices that provide incentives for vacancy with certain nominal values and (b) real e…

Money printer goes brrrr. To save your money, land and houses are your best bet. (even in or after a civil war)

I don’t think that this is always true. Land reform happens consistently in history when ownership gets out of wack. Also the value you assign to the land is going to change when the use changes, for example houses in currently popular tech hubs aren’t as important when people can work remotely. And the improvements to land like houses aren’t always going to necessarily hold their value. Labor is a huge influence on price, what happens when machines start building houses? Not saying you shouldn’t buy land or houses, I consider them part of my strategy but consider the downsides too.

Oh yeah, take a look at the Georgists and The One Tax where land is the only thing taxed since it’s the only finite resource. It’s not impossible that we end up in a situation where holding land just to hold your wealth isn’t going to exist anymore.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#960
post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SFMoma & DeYoung are not first class museums. They have modern art. New York may beat San Francisco, but it is not particularly good. The winning city, without any doubt, is Washington, D.C. Also beating San Francisco: Houston, TX Huntsville, AL Pearlington, MS Kennedy Space Center, FL Dayton, OH Seattle, WA San Diego, CA Chantilly, VA Ashland, NE Unless you actually go to the same museum again and again, your ow…

> The SFMoma & DeYoung are not first class museums. They have modern art. These two statements aren't even related, and while the first is subjective, the second is misleading in regards DeYoung, which is not focussed on modern art.

They really are related. Modern art museums are something you endure to complete assignments for unpleasant humanities courses that are required for your degree. Most of the content is disgusting or boring.

I'd much prefer to see a Saturn V, mummy, XB-70, stegosaurus fossil, Space Shuttle, enigma machine, US constitution, SR-71, or moon rock.

The best museum in San Francisco is probably the cable car museum.

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