Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#741

Post by kelnos » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:13 AM UTC

ihaveajob wrote: post #485

Bud wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The property prices are due to "stunning incompetence of SF government"? I'm not buying that. Public officials are not in charge of—nor do they have any real control over—property values. Your co-worker who bought property elsewhere wasn't able to do so because the mayor of that town was incredibly competent. That had absolutely nothing to do with it.

The board of supervisors routinely rejects housing projects, or puts them up for an absurd review process that involve things like banning buildings if they cast a sliver of shadow on a park (which would on the other hand be tremendously welcome these days). Several supervisors are landlords who are personally invested in keeping the supply low so that prices keep rising. By contrast, Seattle has been building to kee…

And who do you think effectively controls the BoS and planning commission? Voters. Landowning voters. Because by and large, they want to maintain the status quo.

(Full disclosure: I also own property in SF, but am in faor of all sorts of new housing, even that which will lower my home's value.)

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#742

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:16 AM UTC

radicaldreamer wrote: post #530

koolba wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. Whether something is too expensive is not just a function of…

Only in the short to medium term... the characteristics which make SF an attractive place to live (just like NYC) are resilient and sticky. If you consider a post-covid world 5 years from now, do you think that SF with it's museums, bars, restaurants, and proximity to nature will be an unattractive place to live? Do you think that remote-first/remote-only companies where the majority of employees are outside of the b…

[deleted]

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#743

Post by mrgordon » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:18 AM UTC

i_am_viet wrote: post #588

mrgordon wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco has functional public transit which escapes almost every American city and the cool neighborhoods are in fact quite dense, like the Mission. This is why people view it as one of the most walkable cities in America even though it may not be a compact area built around a train station like much of Europe, for example. I would like that, but that’s not how any of America is. You went to a few sushi roll pl…

Actually, sake can be enjoyed cold, warm, or hot. Having the sake serve at a warm temperature doesn’t mean there is anything inherently wrong with the sake itself. The purpose of changing the temperature, as you pointed out, is to change the flavor notes. Having a particular sake cold may bring out fruitier notes while warming it up gives it an extra layer of vanilla. This is just an example. All sake have different…

https://boutiquejapan.com/sake101/#:~:text=At%20the%20risk%2...

"At the risk of overgeneralizing, many sake experts say that ginjo and daiginjo sakes are usually best not warmed (since being served chilled enhances their flavors and aromas), while many junmai and honjozo sakes do well either way (since warming these types of sakes tends to draw out their complex flavors and smooth them out a bit)."

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#744

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:19 AM UTC

chrisdhoover wrote: post #587

reaperducer wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them? They haven't. But other cities have handled some quality of life issues differently, or better, or in some cases worse. It's all cyclical. New York was a great place to be in the 60's, largely due to quality of life. New York in the 70's was a hellhole, largely due to quality of life. These things ebb and flow in every city. It's just SFO'…

Did I miss something at the airport? I haven’t flown in over a year, is it a hellhole now? Was it ride sharing that fostered the downturn?

[deleted]

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#745

Post by kelnos » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:23 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #586

justchilly wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

Just because you can afford it doesn't mean it's a good deal, basically. And living in SF with everything shut down is a pretty terrible deal.

Living in any place where everything is shut down is a pretty bad deal, but that's the situation we're in now. Sure, you get a lot more room to yourself at lower prices if you move out of the bay area or out into the woods, but it seems pretty short-sighted to uproot your life for something that will be temporary (even if "temporary" means another year).

But I guess some people are only here because they have to be for their job, and haven't cared to put down roots. I won't mourn their disappearance, frankly. Lower cost of living for those of us who actually want to be here would be delightful.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#746

Post by kelnos » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:26 AM UTC

baron816 wrote: post #447

akavi wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> right between those two neighborhoods So, in the tenderloin? Suddenly not a great deal.

Not quite the Tenderloin. It’s technically Civic Center. Yes, there’s plenty of homeless around, but that’s just SF, right?

> Yes, there’s plenty of homeless around, but that’s just SF, right?

Not most of the city, no. You moved right into its epicenter.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#747

Post by te_chris » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:29 AM UTC

zapita wrote: post #545

dongvsascript wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have an honest question here. i haven't lived in sf -just visited. i have however been to most states and about 40 countries for comparison. food - most of what i saw was not good food. hipsterish overpriced food made by chefs trying to show off by putting a twist on dishes -not to be good, just to be different or weird. tiny portions, not tasting above average, on a huge plate. all presentation, not actual taste.…

> culture was when i lived in versailles As someone who actually lived in Versailles, this made me laugh outloud. It’s a boring upper-class suburb which happens to have a big castle in it. Culturally it’s at the same level as the Hamptons, just with older buildings and more royalists.

Wondered if someone was going to call this out. Could've namechecked many other places but picked a Paris outer suburb.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#748

Post by kelnos » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:29 AM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #444

fiblye wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K This sounds like a joke about just how absurd SF rents are.

That’s a deal, it’s not much higher than it was ten years ago (oddly enough, when it was already insanely high)

Really? I was living in a nice not-rent-controlled ~800sqft 1BR in a decent part of the western addition in 2010, for $1700/mo.

$3k might have been common at the high end, but I don't think that was typical.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#749

Post by kelnos » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:31 AM UTC

SteveMorin wrote: post #592

x87678r wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My mortgage repayments (including interest) are about $700usd/month. Melbourne is not cheap, there must be more to this story. The average house price in Melbourne is $855,428. A $600k unit, 20% deposit, 25y mortgage, cheap 2% rate is $1.4k or USD 1k. + strata fees

30 Yr Mortgage would be 2.75%-3.1% with very good credit right now

Right, I think the parent was quoting an absurdly low rate to point out that even with unrealistically ideal financing, the monthly payment would still be higher than the grandparent's claim.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#750

Post by albacur » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:34 AM UTC

foobarian wrote: post #590

radicaldreamer wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in the short to medium term... the characteristics which make SF an attractive place to live (just like NYC) are resilient and sticky. If you consider a post-covid world 5 years from now, do you think that SF with it's museums, bars, restaurants, and proximity to nature will be an unattractive place to live? Do you think that remote-first/remote-only companies where the majority of employees are outside of the b…

There are bars and restaurants and museums in hundreds of cities around the country. What makes the ones in SF so special? Or is it rather a tech gravity hole that was enabled by combination of chance and attractive climate?

SF has does high-end, expensive, Michelin star restaurants well. But affordable and mid-range restaurants, bars, and museums in SF are at best on par with what you'll find in other cities.

It's where the most tech jobs are, it's where the VC money is, and if you're in your early twenties and straight out of college, it beats living in a bedroom community on the peninsula.