Live data from Hacker News

Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

wsj.com

481–490 of 1001 posts

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$20k/year to live in Austin, I think my AC bill would eat all that up. But there are other places that don’t have state income tax, like Seattle.

I assume you’re being sarcastic but I’ll give a datapoint anyways. Small home in Austin, ~1400 square feet, costs a little over $200/month in the summer and I keep it a nice cool 71 degrees 24/7. Low to mid $100s the rest of the year. I don’t have any notable shade coverage, either.

It was tongue in cheek. I lived in Austin for only one hot summer, and my dash board melted. Not a bad place otherwise.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#482
Since this whole thread is based on anecdotal evidence. I will offer mine. I work for a large unicorn where most employees live in SF or Bay Area. Almost none have left SF permanently. Many people moved in with their parents or relatives to take advantage of this WFH situation. Almost all of them plan to be back when COVID is over. I have several friends in SF and the one trend that is clear is that they are planning to move from their condos to homes with backyards within SF. But there is massive demand for homes, and they are not able to find anything under $2mn. I think this SF take is wildly premature

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#483
post #473
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K This sounds like a joke about just how absurd SF rents are.

Only if you don't know how many more jobs there are in SF that pay well enough to afford that than there are in other places.

If salaries don't need to reflect local cost of living, it seems that salaries will be subject to change. Fairly soon?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#484

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

And what does SF have for people who don't care about the "bars and culture?" Not much. I spend a half the year in my Sunnyvale, CA home. I never go to SF to see shows, concerts, etc. Several times a year, when I'm in the U.S., I'll put together a trip to NY, LA, etc, to see several events over a long weekend. And/or go to Tanglewood, Monterey Jazz, Cabrillo music festivals. People who visit me are shocked to learn t…

There is no way SF had 2.5x violent crime. SF is exceptionally safe when it comes to violent crime, with only ~40 homicides last year

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#485
post #470
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transit is a huge problem. Even if, say, my coworkers were willing to ride public transit, I'm not sure I'd be willing to be in the same room as them. And to add to the roommate problem, I think a lot of people in sf led lives predicated on not spending that much time in their tiny housing. All of a sudden with everyone all home all the time... oof. You really need a separate office for each person so you're n…

The property prices are due to "stunning incompetence of SF government"? I'm not buying that. Public officials are not in charge of—nor do they have any real control over—property values. Your co-worker who bought property elsewhere wasn't able to do so because the mayor of that town was incredibly competent. That had absolutely nothing to do with it.

The board of supervisors routinely rejects housing projects, or puts them up for an absurd review process that involve things like banning buildings if they cast a sliver of shadow on a park (which would on the other hand be tremendously welcome these days). Several supervisors are landlords who are personally invested in keeping the supply low so that prices keep rising.

By contrast, Seattle has been building to keep up with demand and has been able to manage prices much more effectively. We could have had a Tokyo of the West. Instead, we're left with an emptying shell of a self-agrandizing suburb.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#486
post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them?

What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them? They haven't. But other cities have handled some quality of life issues differently, or better, or in some cases worse. It's all cyclical. New York was a great place to be in the 60's, largely due to quality of life. New York in the 70's was a hellhole, largely due to quality of life. These things ebb and flow in every city. It's just SFO'…

Uhh, maybe US cities haven’t, but here in Tokyo I never smell feces, step on needles, nor are there hordes of homeless people in every major part of the neighborhood, in a city that has affordable housing, a truly phenomenal public transit network, streets that pretty much never have potholes, and endless cultural and culinary amenities, in a place with GDP per capita far lower than SF. And it similarly was the case for pretty much every city I’ve been to in East Asia, so it’s not even just a Tokyo thing.

I was active in SF housing politics when I lived there for 8 years, and my conclusion is that SF and most other US cities incompetent local governments (SF’s especially) are stuck in a mindset where they still repeatedly declare that they’re “great!” despite their blatantly subpar infrastructure and the rampant, systematic trampling of their own citizens human rights. Perhaps it is great for the elderly voters who never leave their homes in the burbs and see the “undesirables”.

They make excuses about how US culture makes tried and true solutions in other cities impossible to implement (So... are they saying US culture is just inferior?), and that things will get better just around the corner (when it costs 10x more and takes 10x longer to make any updates to the built infrastructure in US cities than anywhere else, and SF itself has built virtually nothing in the last 40 years).

Maybe it will, but I decided for myself that I’m not willing to wait around for it, and chose one of the countless cities in the world that in fact does do better.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really true... it only applies to units that were built before a certain year (1979). If you are in any kind of modern unit / luxury unit as noted by GP, then this won't hold. However, most landlords in non-managed buildings are fairly reasonable about only raising rent 2-5% a year. Your mileage may vary.

I think rent control laws recently changed, in the last two years; in SF units older than 2005 now fall under standard rent control rules of ~2% per year or CPI increase, whichever is less. Values of properties built in 2005 recently dropped as a result. A couple years ago, rent controlled units were much older.

Source? Is it not 5%+CPI or 10% whichever is lower [0]?

[0] https://sfrb.org/article/summary-ab-1482-california-tenant-p...

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#488

I think you have to realize this is San Francisco specifically. Not the entire Bay Area. A lot of people worked in places south of San Francisco and then commuted south because SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful. But now that everything is closed down, all the good parts of SF are generally gone. Who wants to live in a cramped apartment with too many roommates and no yard? The trade was always that…

I know this is only anecdotal evidence, but whenever I do have to go into SF for meetings, it's not a pleasant experience. I do feel for the suffering that is evident in the city. But having to literally step carefully over syringes and flecks of human feces everywhere makes my trips to SF a health hazard. Once I was about to sit down on BART when I noticed a syringe left jabbed into the seat cushion, with blood stil…

I’ve never been to SF, how often can one find abandoned syringes on the street or in public transport?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#489
post #482

Since this whole thread is based on anecdotal evidence. I will offer mine. I work for a large unicorn where most employees live in SF or Bay Area. Almost none have left SF permanently. Many people moved in with their parents or relatives to take advantage of this WFH situation. Almost all of them plan to be back when COVID is over. I have several friends in SF and the one trend that is clear is that they are planning…

Nothing is more permanent than “temporary” arrangements; and nothing is more temporary than “permanent” ones.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#490
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> right between those two neighborhoods So, in the tenderloin? Suddenly not a great deal.

Not quite the Tenderloin. It’s technically Civic Center. Yes, there’s plenty of homeless around, but that’s just SF, right?

Don’t listen to everyone being so negative. I lived in Civic Center for several years. Fine place because it’s so central and easy to get anywhere. Probably not a good place to raise a family but otherwise fine. You got a great deal on rent.
Post reply on HN