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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#101
post #100
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does the “high paying” part stay true when companies who need technical talent can now pull candidates from the entire world? I wonder if the move towards remote work might wind up pushing down IT wages across the board. edit: instead of downvoting, maybe help me understand why I might be looking at this wrong?

I did not downvote but timezones, culture, language, skills, etc. are all reasons that companies will not automatically gravitate to the lowest cost areas. Many large companies in tech have global presences that have not resulted in them offshoring all their jobs. That said, I do expect you see a decrease in premiums being paid for high CoL areas to the degree that living there becomes an employee lifestyle choice an…

I'd respond that low-cost areas, when compared to San Francisco, includes something like 90%+ of America. Presuming all talent must come from the coasts is missing a pretty wide swath of very qualified candidates who speak your language natively, who went to top-flight schools, and who live/work in or near your time zone.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#102
I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless):

1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily.

2) A friend who works for google who is going on a 6 month road trip in a camper van

3) A friend who is moving to Santa Cruz just to be closer to surf while we are remote

4) A friend who moved home to Australia because of how the US is handling the virus.

5) A friend who is going month to month in different cities, staying in Airbnbs, and still paying less for housing then his one bedroom in the bay area

6) A friend who moved to Austin to live with her sister

What I am seeing here is very clear also. The SIP order has removed many of the greatest parts of SF, the food, the bars, the culture, the density to be able to go anywhere and see your friends easily, and whats left are many of the problems that the city has, trash, homelessness, and exorbitant housing prices.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#103
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutley wrong, various studies have been done that prove not only does no strings attached housing reduce homelesness, it is cheaper than having shelters and other economic costs. Finland is already doing this: https://english.best/toeic/exercise/finlands-radical-solutio...

That study shows providing housing for free results only in a 35% reduction. Like the GP said, some people can be helped, others not so much.

And it's cheaper! 35% is a lot. That figure will likely be a lot higher given the lack of safetynets in the US already that result in homelessness.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#104
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, give the homeless homes and don't complain about homeless shelters in your upscale neighborhood. Reform police, there are major american cities with protests and minimal violence. You complain about symptoms with no regard for the root cause.

The root cause for a large part of homelessness is mental illness in combination with personal freedom. There is no solution. You can not force people into treatment. San Francisco just happens to attract more homeless for various reasons.

See,people say that and I am sure some if it is mental illness but in my experience most are stuck. Too many catch 22's. You need a phone, a car, clean clothes, a shower,etc... Mental illness itself is exasperated by not having a home. No silver bullets, give them all a safe shelter while you work out other issues

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#105
post #101
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not downvote but timezones, culture, language, skills, etc. are all reasons that companies will not automatically gravitate to the lowest cost areas. Many large companies in tech have global presences that have not resulted in them offshoring all their jobs. That said, I do expect you see a decrease in premiums being paid for high CoL areas to the degree that living there becomes an employee lifestyle choice an…

I'd respond that low-cost areas, when compared to San Francisco, includes something like 90%+ of America. Presuming all talent must come from the coasts is missing a pretty wide swath of very qualified candidates who speak your language natively, who went to top-flight schools, and who live/work in or near your time zone.

Yes and that's one reason why I would expect to see companies that go more heavily remote hiring preferentially from low cost areas of the US rather than China. (Along with IP laws, etc.) As I say, I'd expect more remote jobs to flatten out tech salaries a bit--especially within the US. Mostly not 100% but if I don't need you to live in the Bay Area, I'm probably not going to pay you extra to live there any more than I'd pay you extra because you want to live in Aspen.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#106
So I decided to take a road trip, just me and my dogs recently. Went from California to Southern Texas, up to New Mexico, over to Arizona, Nevada, back to California, up to Oregon, Washington, hit the upper border, came back down to southern California.

What I saw astounded me. It was like the scene from Grapes of Wrath, crossed with the Beverley Hillbillies, crossed with Tokyo Drift.

I saw people leaving in droves but nowhere was it as bad as in California. There is a mass exodus of the state and no one seems to notice it.

People/families are buying vans, even ford/chevy service vans to live in due to them looking commercial(less hassle from people /police), and having blacked out windows. They are also far cheaper than an rv.

Speaking of rvs some people are having to buy non running ones cheap and permapark somewhere. This includes families with pets, with no other recourse.

Every rest stop/flying j was people leaving or homeless people permacamped. I spoke to them regularly and the stories were truly heart wrenching.

I also saw more paper plates (license plates) than regular ones (this is hyperbole but not far off the truth I'm sure even people not traveling have noticed this). Many of these people seemed to not know or care how to drive. I can't begin to guess as to the reasons but people in cars with paper plates were 90 percent of the time a-holes on the road, and I saw many of them in accidents.

I'm sorry for the rant, I just am trying to say I've traveled the US extensively over my 40 years, but this one broke me. We have failed as a society, we do nothing for our most vulnerable, and its hurting us all.

I advise everyone to (when its safe) go to your local rest stops and flying j/pilot/whatever rest stop and talk to some of these people. Those homeless people I see so many complain about here (they're crazy, druggies, they stink!) Also you will meet regular families, many now homeless, who have children with them or grandparents. Who worked their whole lives, some were even approved for unemployment months ago but never got a dime. Most families in the US can't weather missing a single paycheck and these folks were asked to wait indefinitely, and its already been what, 6 months?

Or just talk to the ones who are moving, but don't know where. Did you know that many property rental companies, at least in California, now demand 3 recent check stubs and proof of work, unemployment does not count. We literally have families who have money and still have to move out of state because by the time they got their money its been months since they last worked?

The moratorium on evictions was supposed to help people but guess what? Just like everything else it was perverted into something to hurt the people it was meant to help. Now no one wants a tenant that even may possibly be a risk in the future. We will see how long their properties are vacant before they begin begging for those families back.

Im sorry, I'm done, just all of this is so heartbreaking.

super late edit to add- the sheer volume of people I've met who were absolutely convinced coronavirus isnt real was mind blogging, especially since I lost several people close to me and know many others who were sick. These people came from all walks of life, all races and creeds. But all were positive it was all some big conspiracy. I didn't ever speak on it myself because how do you respond without anger when you've had people taken by it?

Edited for spelling and clarity and to add some stuff.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#107
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All analogies break down fairly quickly, so I'll preface this with a clear vote of support for what you said. But in this case the purpose of a hospital is to provide for the sick. The purpose of a city is to do the opposite of homelessness - a city is a massive collection of homes. The existence of a large homeless population is concerning for reasons you allude to, but because a more appropriate analogy might be "t…

> the purpose of a hospital is to provide for the sick And the purpose of society is to provide for its people. All of them.

There’s no such thing as society.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#108

Have others noticed this kind of "revolt against cities" attitude lately too? I do wonder if people consider the huge advantages city living can provide? I'm reading constantly that current dream is buying a plot of land in the middle no where, signing up for StarLink and growing watermelons while trying to work a full time engineering job. The thing is though, this is all just a temporary thing, even if this pandemi…

I guess we'll see how much of that was what you said and how much is "I need to be in the same room as these people to do my work", which won't, or soon won't be true like it was for the past 100+ years.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#109

Somehow completely ignoring the issue with how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting. The pandemic is being exploited by both business and politicians alike to mask underlying issues in hopes of getting a free pass. The old don't look behind the curtain. Protest violence isn't helping any city; and the lie about Federal agents causing it was silences with continued violence long after they left; an…

> how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting That's a very ugly sentence. Its is not "the homeless" who made the city uninviting. That is like saying "the sick made this hospital uninviting". Homeless people need help. They are people in distress. Those who made the city uninviting are self-centered voters, who apparently can't give two shits about the situation, and keep voting people into power wh…

Yes the homeless need to be in long term health facilities. Many of these people were essentially kicked out of these facilities due to budget issues. The federal government turns a blind eye, while individual cities take turns buying bus or plane fares to make them another city’s problem. This issue has its origins from a combination of the Reagan Administration and heavy lobbying by the Kennedy family.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#110
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the purpose of a hospital is to provide for the sick And the purpose of society is to provide for its people. All of them.

There’s no such thing as society.

Slow down there, Margaret!
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