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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property taxes in California are among the lowest in the nation.

And the income tax is by far the highest, currently at 13.3% compared to 2nd place Hawaii’s 11%. Sales tax averages to 8.5%, good for 9th highest in the country.

> And the income tax is by far the highest, currently at 13.3%

If you’re earning over $1,000,000 per year, yes.

SF median income is below 100K.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#32
post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

> The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. But isn't the point of the article that San Francisco specifically is seeing an exceptional exodus? The story even mentions San Jose as a regional counter example to the observations being made of SF.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#33
post #21

It’s odd they don’t mention the sky high taxes in California as a driving force for the exodus and the fact the Gavin Newsom wants to raise them even more to cover Covid shortages. There’s only so much you can squeeze out of people before they’ll pack up an go.

Property taxes in California are among the lowest in the nation.

On a percentage basis. 1% of $1m is still way more than 4% of $150k

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#34

Somehow completely ignoring the issue with how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting. The pandemic is being exploited by both business and politicians alike to mask underlying issues in hopes of getting a free pass. The old don't look behind the curtain. Protest violence isn't helping any city; and the lie about Federal agents causing it was silences with continued violence long after they left; an…

> how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting

That's a very ugly sentence.

Its is not "the homeless" who made the city uninviting. That is like saying "the sick made this hospital uninviting".

Homeless people need help. They are people in distress.

Those who made the city uninviting are self-centered voters, who apparently can't give two shits about the situation, and keep voting people into power who don't do anything to help those who need help.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#35
post #21

It’s odd they don’t mention the sky high taxes in California as a driving force for the exodus and the fact the Gavin Newsom wants to raise them even more to cover Covid shortages. There’s only so much you can squeeze out of people before they’ll pack up an go.

Property taxes in California are among the lowest in the nation.

Yeah, but if your property is worth a lot, it still can be expensive.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#36

Somehow completely ignoring the issue with how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting. The pandemic is being exploited by both business and politicians alike to mask underlying issues in hopes of getting a free pass. The old don't look behind the curtain. Protest violence isn't helping any city; and the lie about Federal agents causing it was silences with continued violence long after they left; an…

Ok, give the homeless homes and don't complain about homeless shelters in your upscale neighborhood. Reform police, there are major american cities with protests and minimal violence.

You complain about symptoms with no regard for the root cause.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#37
post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

At this point, it's hard to say if you're looking at blips or systemic trends. There are certainly reasons one could imagine that there's a more general exodus from San Francisco and the Silicon Valley sprawl more broadly. While I generally like SF as a visitor, the negative side of the ledger gets longer with each passing year and most of SV broadly doesn't have much going for it, especially for the CoL, except for its access to places that are actually nice. So if people don't want/need to live there for high-paid tech jobs I can certainly imagine many leaving, at least to the point where CoL somewhat adjusts to sustainable levels.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#38
post #30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure I follow. It seems plausible that the sky-high taxes are a major motivator for people wanting to leave CA but a recent change in SF made it possible for people to move to a different state (e.g., Twitter and FB allowing permanent remote work and Google working remotely into 2021).

Poster was suggesting high state taxes were to blame, but if that was true, one would also expect that trend to extend to other cities in the same state. If it’s due to remote workers as you suggest, then it should also apply to cities with a high population of tech workers and headquarters like San Jose. According to the article, it doesn’t. This makes the state tax argument hard to defend.

You're right, if people don't like the tax situation they should just move away.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#39

Somehow completely ignoring the issue with how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting. The pandemic is being exploited by both business and politicians alike to mask underlying issues in hopes of getting a free pass. The old don't look behind the curtain. Protest violence isn't helping any city; and the lie about Federal agents causing it was silences with continued violence long after they left; an…

> how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting That's a very ugly sentence. Its is not "the homeless" who made the city uninviting. That is like saying "the sick made this hospital uninviting". Homeless people need help. They are people in distress. Those who made the city uninviting are self-centered voters, who apparently can't give two shits about the situation, and keep voting people into power wh…

> That is like saying "the sick made this hospital uninviting".

But the sick do make a hospital uninviting! Think of all those heart attack patients who opted not to visit their local emergency department. Heart attacks are still happening regardless of how many additional patients are at the hospital due to infection.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#40
Have others noticed this kind of "revolt against cities" attitude lately too?

I do wonder if people consider the huge advantages city living can provide?

I'm reading constantly that current dream is buying a plot of land in the middle no where, signing up for StarLink and growing watermelons while trying to work a full time engineering job.

The thing is though, this is all just a temporary thing, even if this pandemic meanders on for another 3-5 years. It's nothing in the course of history.People will still go to cities because the best opportunities, education, entertainment and social scenes will exist there. People who live in cities will have advantages and children will want to move there from the country to be with other young people.

I'm not saying that there aren't advantages to the country lifestyle, I've spent time in rural areas too and had plenty of family who lived, I understand the romantic allure of it.

But cities were popular before this, and they'll be popular after this too.

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