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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#421

Post by bhickey »

megaframe wrote: post #384
captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

Similar observation, on my tiny stretch of street I've seen 7 moving trucks since SIP started, far more than I've ever seen. I get it, If you just moved or been here 1-2yr I'd leave too, the costs would make no sense. I'm right on the fence. I've been at my current place ~6 years, prices have just started to get to about what I'm paying (rent controlled). I'm hoping it drops some more so I can negotiate a reduction.…

> and my employer saying they'd adjust my pay to reflect local cost of living I'm not sure what would be best.

This "local cost of living" and "regional market" argument is a farce. Remote workers are competing in a global market by definition. They might as well be honest and say, "we think we can get away with paying you less."

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#422

Post by fortran77 »

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

And what does SF have for people who don't care about the "bars and culture?" Not much.

I spend a half the year in my Sunnyvale, CA home. I never go to SF to see shows, concerts, etc. Several times a year, when I'm in the U.S., I'll put together a trip to NY, LA, etc, to see several events over a long weekend. And/or go to Tanglewood, Monterey Jazz, Cabrillo music festivals.

People who visit me are shocked to learn that I live 40 miles from SF and never go there. (Especially because I'm a gay man.)

SF really needs to build more housing, and get the homelessness and crime problem under control. Pre-pandemic, SF had 2.5x the violent crime rate of NYC. (That may be different now that crime has spiked in NY.)

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#423

Post by vmception »

kilroy123 wrote: post #357
AIX2ESXI wrote: post #326

Been a professional IT worker since 1999. Most of my sysadmin roles have always been on site with occasional remote work. Over the years, I've been able to swing working for a few weeks at a time while traveling abroad. Currently based in Los Angeles and my organization is allowing us to work remote. Looking to just move abroad to Ukraine and lower my costs of living while immersing myself into a new culture and esca…

Born and raised in California and I've been in the tech industry since 2007. I have been living abroad for almost 6 years and couldn't recommend it enough. It requires some flexibility but it's been an amazing adventure.

I live in SF

I bounced between hostels and luxury hotels and airbnbs in central Europe last year, it was about $600 per month. With the luxury hotels being subsidized by reward points.

I pay over 10x more than that for pretty decadent living in SF. Not a complaint, I know what I'm doing. Just perspective.

I would highly recommend living abroad indefinitely.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#424

Post by e2021 »

momokoko wrote: post #142

I think you have to realize this is San Francisco specifically. Not the entire Bay Area. A lot of people worked in places south of San Francisco and then commuted south because SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful. But now that everything is closed down, all the good parts of SF are generally gone. Who wants to live in a cramped apartment with too many roommates and no yard? The trade was always that…

But the asking rent is down ~15% y/y all through peninsula, so I don't think this argument really holds up.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#425

Post by 01100011 »

adjkant wrote: post #322
01100011 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gym is 2 blocks away. Within 2 blocks I have about 10 restaurants. I also don't have to walk over syringes or navigate homeless camps. I think you're stereotyping non-urban environments.

> I also don't have to walk over syringes or navigate homeless camps. That stereotyping goes both ways, as this is nothing like my walk to my gym. > My gym is 2 blocks away. Within 2 blocks I have about 10 restaurants. Does that density hold for the 30 minute walk radius from your dwelling in all directions? There's a big difference between living in the "main street" area of a suburban area and that type of environm…

Yes because I live in the suburbs, not the country. I'm talking about urbia vs non-urbia, not civilization vs the countryside.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#426

Post by ghaff »

damnyou wrote: post #155
ghaff wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If anything, this will improve the live of those who can't move out of big cities. Maybe. Will that still be true if transit systems and city services generally are in disarray and many of your nice restaurants, cafes, and bars shuttered?

Yeah, I'd rather have an affordable restaurant with good food instead of a "nice" one with $20 entrees.

Most "affordable" food I'd rather just make at home. If I eat out, other than travel, it's because the restaurant makes something I can't easily make myself. (I do get a pizza or whatever now and then but that's pretty widely available.)

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#427

Post by CoolGuySteve »

rtlfe wrote: post #418
justchilly wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

> People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them?

They haven’t, NYC is also boring now.

With unemployment rising and poor benefits, civil unrest, and shitty containment policies; I’m thinking about riding the rest of this out back in Canada so we don’t get robbed/assaulted.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#428

Post by simonw »

rtlfe wrote: post #418
justchilly wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

> People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them?

At a guess: everything is shut down because of the pandemic.

That's true in other cities too. But if you can't take advantage of the facilities a city has to offer, why pay $4,000/month rent to live there during the pandemic when you could pay less than half of that somewhere else?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#429

Post by TedShiller »

momokoko wrote: post #142

I think you have to realize this is San Francisco specifically. Not the entire Bay Area. A lot of people worked in places south of San Francisco and then commuted south because SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful. But now that everything is closed down, all the good parts of SF are generally gone. Who wants to live in a cramped apartment with too many roommates and no yard? The trade was always that…

I know this is only anecdotal evidence, but whenever I do have to go into SF for meetings, it's not a pleasant experience. I do feel for the suffering that is evident in the city. But having to literally step carefully over syringes and flecks of human feces everywhere makes my trips to SF a health hazard. Once I was about to sit down on BART when I noticed a syringe left jabbed into the seat cushion, with blood still visible inside the syringe's barrel. Had I sat down, I may have contracted a blood-borne disease.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#430

Post by koolba »

justchilly wrote: post #174
captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

> The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices.

Whether something is too expensive is not just a function of whether you can afford it. It’s a question of whether it’s worth it at the price being offered. You make make that same conflicting point.

The affluent would simply be first movers in this type of situation as many do not need to time their exits with their leases ending. The cash poor, yet high income tech workers will be the next mass exodus.

If you think SF is a shell of a city now, just wait till 6 months from now.

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