Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#751

Post by ookblah » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:36 AM UTC

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

exact same thing i am seeing in nyc. also moved away for a few months and am still paying less staying in hotels and what not lol.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#752

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:37 AM UTC

WWLink wrote: post #672

nogabebop23 wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This is a blip. It could be a major blip So if it's a 10 or 20 year "major" blip does that make it longer than "temporary"? Locals tend to go to museums once or never, lots of places have good bars and restaurants and the idea of SF having a proximity to real nature is a joke. I guess time will tell if you, I or someone else is ultimately correct, but the pull of SF was the jobs above all else; if that's gone then…

The pull of SF was never programming jobs lol.

[deleted]

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#753

Post by kelnos » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:38 AM UTC

gravypod wrote: post #549

baron816 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternate experience: I just moved into SF a week ago from elsewhere in the Bay. I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K + almost a 1 month concession and no deposit. Being a single, young(ish) guy, it still makes sense to be in a city. I have more space than I need now, and I can afford the rent. Maybe things aren’t that nice right now, but I’m hoping they’ll get back to semi…

You can rent-to-own a 6br house on a 6k+ sqft lot with a detached garage in NJ with a ~1hr commute to Manhattan for $3,500/month in NJ. $3k/month on an apartment gets you a luxury huge 2 to 3 bedroom with in unit w/d and bowling/swimming in the basement or something in Hoboken with a Thinking 36k/year (more then the total comp of many workers in America) is cheap housing is a Bay-area distortion.

As someone who grew up in NJ about an hour south of Manhattan, that sounds like a living situation that would make me very unhappy as an adult (don't get me wrong; I had a great childhood). But I have some dear friends who lived in San Jose for several years and then ended up moving back to rural South Jersey, so, clearly, to each their own.

Even the 25min commute from Hoboken would make me sad. I want to be able to walk or take local transit to where I want to hang out.

> Thinking 36k/year is cheap housing is a Bay-area distortion.

I don't think anyone's making that claim?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#754

Post by gridlockd » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:41 AM UTC

dirtyaura wrote: post #724

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great four months a year, but what about the rest of the year? No one can eat outdoors in 20F, or bike to work in the snow and ice. SF does have the advantage of year round biking weather.

Cycling year around in New York should be relatively easy. There is winter cycling culture in much harsher climates https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/feb/12/ice-cycles-no...

There's a reason why Finland or Canada or Alaska are sparsely populated: The weather.

Sure, those people who can be bothered with it might pick up the cycle during the winter. Those people who can't be bothered are going to pick up their stuff and leave.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#755

Post by kelnos » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:51 AM UTC

dongvsascript wrote: post #534

mrgordon wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think San Francisco has poor quality food, you clearly haven’t spent much time there (as you admit) or you don’t have very discerning taste. California grows the majority of the country’s produce and most everyone else is getting the same ingredients a few days later. Farm to table is the standard instead of something that starts at $25/plate like in most US cities The city could be more dense in some areas bu…

i did not say poor quality food. i said very average food, overpresented artistically and overpriced. farm to table isn't good for meat -aged meat is better. aged about a month. sushi -yes. except very little sushi from what i saw in sf. a lot of weird rolls, which is not sushi to me. good sushi was in tokyo, where i have lived for several months. fresh produce is shipped overnight anywhere nowadays. being near a far…

> sushi -yes. except very little sushi from what i saw in sf. a lot of weird rolls, which is not sushi to me. good sushi was in tokyo, where i have lived for several months.

Ok, you lost me there. I've lived in SF for 10 years and there's sushi all over the place. Actual, real sashimi, nigiri, whatever you want. A la carte, set meals, omakase, whatever. Some of it is pretty high end, and you'll pay more in SF for an equivalent meal in Tokyo.

Beyond that, it's a little weird to bring up Tokyo as an example... the sushi in Tokyo is better than the sushi in pretty much any place in the US, perhaps in pretty much any place outside Japan. Not really a fair comparison.

Regardless, I kinda just think that you were visiting the wrong places when you visited SF. I agree that there's an annoying amount of of mediocre food that seems to exist more to look nice than to taste amazing, but that's true of many cities. (But these places tend not to last that long.) There's lots of fantastic food in SF, and frankly it's not even that hard to find, so I'm baffled by your bad experience.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#756

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:52 AM UTC

dongvsascript wrote: post #650

dragonwriter wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sf is definitely not known for tasty food. Yes, it is. It's mostly orthogonal to the trendy food scene, and if you follow the latter hoping to find the former you’ll likely be disappointed, but SF is known for excellent examples of both a wide variety of authentic ethnic cuisines and a wide variety of excellent unique creative/fusion offerings apart from the trendy scene.

so what is that food? the south is known for great bbq. chicago is the meat capitol, with deep dish and greektown. maryland for crab and maine for lobster, nyc has authentic jew-food that rivals what i ate in israel and jordan. what is the food sf is known for? because if i literally ask anyone i know, the answer will be 'fusion.' or 'pizza' with ranch and lettuce in it. you're known for california rolls. the big mac…

> because if i literally ask anyone i know

That doesn't really tell me anything about SF, but it does tell me a lot about the people you know.

> you're known for california rolls.

Me? I mean, I live in (approximately) Sacramento, not SF; of course, it's LA that is known for California rolls, anyway.

> known doesn't mean known just to you.

Yeah, I mean “known in media and culture”; not for a particular regional cuisine, but for the cosmopolitan variety of high-quality cuisine available.

> in a city i want to live in, i walk outside and pick from 5 good places.

Sounds like SF to me.

The good places and the popular, large, heavily marketed and online-reviewed places with glaring signage, though, only occasionally overlap.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#757

Post by aorloff » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:55 AM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #722

m_ke wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Brooklyn and have seen 2-3 business close a week around me. At this point almost every other storefront is vacant (many of which have been since before the pandemic). My hope is that this will bring down commercial real estate prices down significantly and create an opportunity for a lot more small businesses in a year or so, most of which I assume will be restaurants and other "experience" based shops. The…

> My hope is that this will bring down commercial real estate prices down significantly I'm going to predict that this will not happen. More specifically, that it will be unusual in general for rents or prices anywhere to drop any more than 10%. There's something odd going on and my best guess is that there are (a) accounting/tax practices that provide incentives for vacancy with certain nominal values and (b) real e…

Commercial real estate prices are coming down.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#758

Post by kelnos » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:56 AM UTC

dongvsascript wrote: post #735

dragonwriter wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you think San Francisco has poor quality food, you clearly haven’t spent much time there (as you admit) or you don’t have very discerning taste. Or just are following shallow, presentation-focussed hipster-targetting marketing and being surprised that it leads you to presentation-focussed hipster-targetted food offerings.

or, follow me on this. i just walk out onto the street, type "restaurant" into google, and pick something with 4 star and up reviews. no marketing or presentations involved - just what people around there reviewed as good. and the food is average. this isn't bad, but average food with some gems you have to know about and take an uber to, is not a reason to live in a city - and it was presented as such in the comment…

If you're seriously suggesting that a Google search for "restaurant" is going to get you a marketing-free, accurate picture of the world around you, I'm not sure what to do with that.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#759

Post by kelnos » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:59 AM UTC

dongvsascript wrote: post #544

wldlyinaccurate wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a shitpost? I honestly can't tell. You start off by saying you've only ever visited SF and then go on to make a load of generalisations as if you know SF like the back of your hand. Also this: > there are very few attractive girls at bars, or at offices, or even on the street, compared to just about anywhere in the world. and if that's not why you go to bars, i have to ask -you'd enjoy going to bars with most…

i said what i noticed from my 3 weeks there over 2 trips, which was contrary to what op claimed. i presented my observations asking if they were not normal for sf. so you consider a sausage festival at every bar you go ok, but not enjoying that sausagefest is awful. i think i just solved a mystery of my own. not that there's anything wrong with that, just not something that appeals to most males.

Um, I go to bars to hang out with my friends while someone else makes tasty cocktails I'm too lazy to make for myself. News flash: most people who go to bars aren't there just to look at or hit on women. Yes, there are some who do, but that's not what bars are for.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#760

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:00 AM UTC

dongvsascript wrote: post #735

dragonwriter wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you think San Francisco has poor quality food, you clearly haven’t spent much time there (as you admit) or you don’t have very discerning taste. Or just are following shallow, presentation-focussed hipster-targetting marketing and being surprised that it leads you to presentation-focussed hipster-targetted food offerings.

or, follow me on this. i just walk out onto the street, type "restaurant" into google, and pick something with 4 star and up reviews. no marketing or presentations involved - just what people around there reviewed as good. and the food is average. this isn't bad, but average food with some gems you have to know about and take an uber to, is not a reason to live in a city - and it was presented as such in the comment…

> or, follow me on this. i just walk out onto the street, type "restaurant" into google, and pick something with 4 star and up reviews. no marketing or presentations involved

Heh.

Reliance on numerical ratings in online reviews isn't particularly different than reliance on marketing with a specific demographic targeting and, yeah, surprisingly enough it does tend to lead you to the more instagram-ready establishments.